American Health Insurance

[redneckgeek]

That is just not true. Medicare has an overhead cost of 2 or 3%, while the private insurance companies have an overhead cost of 31%. Medicare takes no profit, private insurance takes massive profits. I agree that they have begun trying to destroy Medicare in the last decade or so, by turning the administration of Medicare over to private insurers, and creating Part A, Part B, etc. That IS a paperwork nightmare, but it didn't used to be that way, and the only reason that it is that way today is because the private insurers have become involved.

I'm not talking about the government's cost. I mean the cost to the physician...

"Physician dissatisfaction with Medicare has been brewing for years, and it isn't always just about money. The administrative and regulatory burdens are often too costly and frustrating to deal with, particularly for primary care physicians in smaller practices" - Medical Leaders Media

Physicians ARE leaving Medicare, because it is too cumbersome and costly.

 

[Alisa]

One thing I should make clear- right now what we have here is really neither a socialized medicine nor free market healthcare. We have a chimera of the worst from each, and it just hurts everyone. I simply do not believe that socialized medicine is the better solution because it still has the problem: a bureaucrat makes the decision on whether to provide coverage or not with *your* money.

No matter the system, somebody makes the decision on what gets covered and what doesn't. Right now, the people who make that decision regard any money spent actually providing medical care as a "loss". Their whole objective is to NOT give people medical care. With some future alternative system, one woule hope that those decisions would be made with the actual health of the patient in mind, rather than the health of someone's profit margin.

It's easy to say that we should take out profit motive, but I already pointed out that the resources to provide medical care are scarce, and always will be. There's no free lunch, and forcing insurance to cover everyone isn't going to magically make more resource available for everyone. I'd rather put my faith in invisible hand of the market to allocate the scarce resource than in some faceless bureaucrat, whether he works for a for-profit company or for the government, to rubber-stamp my claim.

In an absolute sense, yes, resources to provide anything are scarce. But I don't think they are so scarce that covering everyone would lead to some sort of horrific rationing of care. I agree that mandating the insurance companies to cover everyone won't help. But I don't think that "the free hand of the market" will allocate reousrces effectively. The force that moves the free hand of the market is money, and we have already seen the effects of rationing care by ability to pay: Our tax dollars pay for the poor to get care, the rich can afford fabulous care, and the rest of us tax payers get either no care or mediochre care, depending on what we can afford.

Think about it this way, when your house is on fire, does the fire department ask whether you can afford their services before they come put out the fire? Do the police ask what your "police insurance plan" is before they take your report of robbery? Does the public school make you sign a payment plan before they agree to educate your child? Do you have to pay the cement man when he comes to fix a pothole on the street in front of your house? When your drinking water is dirty, do you have to go build your own water treatment plant? These are all examples of where we collectively spend our tax money to provide services that benefit everyone. In some cases, it really is more efficient to pay for big things with our tax dollars than individually.

That is how I think of medical care. There should be some bottom line where everyone can recieve a basic level of medical care, so that people are not dying because of the simple fact that they can't afford to go to the doctor.

 

[Alisa]

I'm not talking about the government's cost. I mean the cost to the physician...

"Physician dissatisfaction with Medicare has been brewing for years, and it isn't always just about money. The administrative and regulatory burdens are often too costly and frustrating to deal with, particularly for primary care physicians in smaller practices" - Medical Leaders Media

Physicians ARE leaving Medicare, because it is too cumbersome and costly.

Yes, as I said, there have been efforts to undermine medicare for over a decade now, and unfortunately, they have been very successful.

 

[lmnop7854]

I'd rather put my faith in invisible hand of the market to allocate the scarce resource than in some faceless bureaucrat, whether he works for a for-profit company or for the government, to rubber-stamp my claim.

I guess I don't understand your statement there - what do you mean by the invisibile hand of the market to allocate the scarce resource? And what do you mean by scarce resource? I don't understand the idea that medical care is scarce in this country. Perhaps on a regional basis, the farther you are from a metropolitan center, access to care is more difficult. And as far as the faceless bureaucrat, usually those people who make the decisions about paying or not paying for a type of service are all medical personnel. And those restrictions on your health insurance policy are all written in your contract, which is mailed to you, which you probably don't read (guilty as charged, and I work there).

Regarding the health care spending, while an average Joe may have substandard healthcare here in US, it bears to note that when we look at where rich people, despotic dictators, or anyone else with money to burn will go to US to get the top quality care.

I disagree with the statement that there are differences in the quality of care that the "average Joe" and "rich people". I can at least speak for my community that this type of selective care does not occur. Yes, the doctors have friends and family, and they used to provide "professional courtesy" to those people, but it wasn't better care - it was usually faster service. A doctor is only as good as he is, and he doesn't treat a patient worse just because he is poor, or doesn't have insurance. I know many health care providers personally in my community, and they would be appalled at that generalization.

 

[Alisa]

And as far as the faceless bureaucrat, usually those people who make the decisions about paying or not paying for a type of service are all medical personnel. And those restrictions on your health insurance policy are all written in your contract, which is mailed to you, which you probably don't read (guilty as charged, and I work there).

That is just not true. It may be true at your company, although I doubt it, but accross the board it is not true. How do explain the hundreds of thousands of cases where medical care that people NEEDED was denied? How do you explain Linda Peeno's testimony that her success as a claims adjuster is measured by the amount of money the insurance company didn't spend on medical care? As far as the restrictions written into the policies, they are absolutely criminal. I had a policy last year where medically necessary surgery was covered (after I paid the $5,000 deductible ofcourse), however, any oxygen used during such surgery was excluded. What kind of bullshit is that?

 

[lmnop7854]

That is just not true. It may be true at your company, although I doubt it, but accross the board it is not true. How do explain the hundreds of thousands of cases where medical care that people NEEDED was denied? How do you explain Linda Peeno's testimony that her success as a claims adjuster is measured by the amount of money the insurance company didn't spend on medical care? As far as the restrictions written into the policies, they are absolutely criminal. I had a policy last year where medically necessary surgery was covered (after I paid the $5,000 deductible ofcourse), however, any oxygen used during such surgery was excluded. What kind of bullshit is that?

Quite frankly, that is crappy health insurance. Glad I don't live in your neck of the woods. Medical care that people NEED is basically covered where I live, and I think you would get a majority of agreement from others that live where I do. It absolutely sickens me that the crap you mention above occurs, because I have been so privileged to live and work in an area where that just doesn't happen (or at least not that much). And a $5000 deductible is criminal as well.

I know it happens. God, do I know. But you'd have to trade all that great sun and scenery where you live for the tundra I live in to get the health care I have.

 

[Alisa]

I know it happens. God, do I know. But you'd have to trade all that great sun and scenery where you live for the tundra I live in to get the health care I have.

I know you are saying that as a joke, but it is actually quite serious. Why is it that in America, the so-called greatest country on earth, we don't recognize access to basic medical care as an inalienable human right, whereas the rest of the industrialized world does? Why do we expect people to move, or get a different job, or sacrafice their life savings, just to get medical care that is necessary to their health and survival?

 

[lmnop7854]

I know you are saying that as a joke, but it is actually quite serious. Why is it that in America, the so-called greatest country on earth, we don't recognize access to basic medical care as an inalienable human right, whereas the rest of the industrialized world does? Why do we expect people to move, or get a different job, or sacrafice their life savings, just to get medical care that is necessary to their health and survival?

Capitalism and greed. In a nutshell.

 

[ColinEssex]

Lisa (Imnop) - What are you doing with the missing Madeline McCann in your avatar? You can't keep her you know. That stuck-up cow Kate and poncy Gerry McCann will presumably want her back.

Col

PS - Don't suppose you have Shergar and Lord Lucan have you?

 

[lmnop7854]

Lisa (Imnop) - What are you doing with the missing Madeline McCann in your avatar? You can't keep her you know. That stuck-up cow Kate and poncy Gerry McCann will presumably want her back.

Col

PS - Don't suppose you have Shergar and Lord Lucan have you?

Colin:

Whoops!!! Did I inadvertantly use my ransom picture??? Yikes!! The authorities will be onto me!! Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

All kidding aside, and so no one else thinks I REALLY kidnapped Madeline, this is my daughter Haley, 3 years old, and god forbid SHE ever disappear on me. And I don't know who Shergar and Lord Lucan are, so no, I don't have them.

Lisa

 

[lmnop7854]

Lisa (Imnop) - What are you doing with the missing Madeline McCann in your avatar? You can't keep her you know. That stuck-up cow Kate and poncy Gerry McCann will presumably want her back.

Col

PS - Don't suppose you have Shergar and Lord Lucan have you?

And it's LMNOP, just lowercase. I figured everyone would be familiar with that part of the alphabet, but it appears not.

Lisa