Auguments

[jpl458]

Either the IRS, the Muller commission, the FBI, BOTH impeachments, the CIA, and the NY Prosecutor, etc. are totally incompetent or no, he didn't commit any crime worthy of prosecuting. Every new bogus charge raises the hopes of the left and especially the media because if it bleeds, it leads. We've got him NOW!!!!! They can't pin anything on him so they've decided to hurt him in his pocket book by making him spend millions of dollars every year to defend himself from their made up charges and fishing expeditions. Boy they were sure they had them when they raided Mar a Largo. They forgot or elected to conveniently ignore the fact that as the President, he could declassify ANYTHING. All they wanted to do was to embarrass him and make Melania really pissed off at him by messing up her underwear drawer. Ask yourself why the FBI told the staff to turn OFF the cameras. Why didn't they want film of what they were doing? Was their plan to plant something actually incriminating???? Was that what the raid was for?

Other government officials such as Senators and VPs have limited authority to declassify that generally covers only things they personally classified and sometimes not even those. Therefore Joe Biden actually did commit a crime when he took home classified documents as Senator and as VP. As President, he doesn't retroactively get to declassify the documents. When he is out of office, he deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, exactly as he would have done to Trump if he had a leg to stand on.

Open your eyes. If the IRS audits him, his business, his children, and many of his friends for good measure every year and finds nothing but trivia, then they are persecuting him. Are you audited every year? How would you feel about that?

Read the law regarding the declassification of classified documents. The President cannot just say it's declassified, there is a process for declassifying secret documents. Your last sentence is in error as well. He under valued, and over valued the same assets depending on the situation, including his taxes. You can't do that. He has all those law suits because he broke the law, a lot. I have some personal experience with regard to his litigious nature, and the fact that he mostly tries not to pay his bills. If he were a Democrat, I would be saying the same things about him.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The mishandling of presidential or other sensitive material is bad news if you are a staffer, but good luck throwing Trump, Biden, or Pence in jail anytime soon. It's a ploy to interfere with the next election similar to the laptop from hell, it's politics.

 

[jpl458]

I don't quite agree that it is just a ploy, and there is some politics involved, but this I am sure of; Donald Trump is going to spend the rest of his life fighting in courts, because of the number of cases, Georgia, New York, and the multiple Fed cases, and the fact that his tactic is to delay everything as long as he and his lawyers can. He is 77 years old, and these matters won't be reconciled for at least a decade. In my opinion, I think just being Donald Trump is punishment enough, he is the most unhappy person I have ever seen. Imagine the angst he endures on a daily basis.

 

[moke123]

The mishandling of presidential or other sensitive material is bad news if you are a staffer, but good luck throwing Trump, Biden, or Pence in jail anytime soon. It's a ploy to interfere with the next election similar to the laptop from hell, it's politics.

Except Biden and Pence didn't obstruct justice and returned the small number of documents they had promptly. They also didn't permit a staffer to copy them to a thumb drive and laptop and didn't file fraudulent attestations that they had no more records.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The President cannot just say it's declassified, there is a process for declassifying secret documents.

There is no law. There are merely "guidelines". Presidents make their own rules. Who do you think made the "guidelines"?

He under valued, and over valued the same assets depending on the situation, including his taxes.

I guess you don't understand how this works. The banks that loaned him money did their own due diligence. Do you think for a minute they just handed over the money because he asked? I don't think so. They would not have loaned him the money if they did not think they would be repaid and that the property was worth something close to what he was valuing it at. You want to sell something. Your house for example. You think it is worth $966,000 so that is what you ask. The buyer offers $500,000 because that is what he wants to pay. You pay to have the bank appraise the property. The bank is willing to loan $700,000 so their appraised value is $875,000 at an 80% LTV. The bank's valuation will always be low because they want to be conservative and the seller's valuation will always be high. The point is - there is a number that the bank will loan. They will not give a penny more even if your name is Donald J. Trump. The process works in the reverse when it comes to property taxes. One of my neighbors recently negotiated a reduction in the appraised value of his condo. Not sure how he convinced the town that his condo was worth less than others of the same model. But there will be more requests for reappraisal coming out of my community very soon. You would NEVER declare that your property is worth $966,000 even if that is what you were asking for it. you would say it was worth $500,000 because in reality, it isn't worth a penny more than you can sell it for and that was your most recent offer.

You are way too willing to always believe the worst of Trump. Are you that willing to believe the worst of your friends and family? There are always alternate opinions and you are allowing other people's opinions to color your opinion. You are not using your own brain to understand the various opinions. Did Trump cheat anyone in either case? No, he was offering an opinion and it is perfectly valid for a value to be different depending on your perspective on the transaction. That doesn't make you a criminal. There is lots about Trump that offends me but he is NOT a criminal and he is not stupid. Only a stupid person would undervalue when selling and overvalue for tax purposes. This is the United States of America where we are innocent until proven guilty and yet as soon as there is the slightest whisper of some action taken by Trump that some pundit disagrees with, you jump right on that band wagon. Orange man EVIL. This time it MUST be true. It has to be true, he is so dislikable he has to be a criminal and the half of the country who voted for him is stupid and evil as well.

Have you ever lost a tax dispute with the IRS? You donated a car to a charity and the IRS thinks the charity gave the car too high a valuation to please you so you would keep giving them stuff. Guess what, the IRS wins because they have the guns. Are you a tax cheat? Yes by your own definition you are a TAX CHEAT. How does that sound to you? YOU are a tax cheat if you have a disagreement with the IRS. That is your opinion unless of course, it pertains to something you did. When it pertains to something Trump did, he MUST be a tax cheat. Please God, put him in jail. Well, they keep trying. In the case of Trump, they don't have a crime they are trying to solve. They are looking for the crime he committed. He MUST have committed some crime, right? One of my good friends who is very Republican and very Catholic hates Trump. Especially because he's on his third wife. She also loves major league sports and goes to church every Sunday. So I pointed out to her that at least he marries his "baby-mommas". Then I showed her some pictures of her favorite sports figures surrounded by the women who they impregnated but didn't bother to marry and their various offspring and pointed out that these are the role models our grandchildren idolize. Men who keep score by how many different children they can have by different women. If you had to choose, who would be the better man?

The media tells me the evil orange man is hateful and I can't be bothered to look any further than that. I believe what the talking heads on CNN and CBS, etc. tell me because they would never lie to me. I stopped watching 60 minutes years ago because of their biased reporting on Trump. Read down a few paragraphs and think about all of the lies I listed and they are just a few of many.

but good luck throwing Trump, Biden, or Pence in jail anytime soon.

WHY are all three in the same category.? Only ONE of them had the authority to declassify documents. Senators and VPs have NO authority to declassify secret documents. Why is Pence not being persecuted by the DOJ for his actual crime? Biden can't be prosecuted why he is the President. Two of the three had NO SUCH AUTHORITY and therefore should go to jail like any other person who accidentally mishandles confidential documents, except HRC of course. SHE never did anything wrong. It was perfectly OK for her to have an unsecured server holding secret documents in a bathroom. It was perfectly OK for her to put up the funds to try to collect opposition research on Trump. And yet you think that only Trump should be prosecuted???? What kind of a country do you want to live in?

Except Biden and Pence didn't obstruct justice

You can repeat this talking point until the cows come home. Just because you repeat a lie often enough doesn't make it so. Multiple members of Congress and former members of the FBI and CIA said Trump was colluding with Russia and the FBI knew from the beginning that this was a LIE. But, the FBI, even KNOWING it was a lie because they were trying to pay the perpetrator of the dossier a million dollars to come up with actual "proof", they used the information in multiple FISA requests and LIED to the FISA court in doing that. "50" people with top secret clearance said the Hunter laptop was Russian disinformation and this LIE was pushed for YEARS when the FBI knew it to be a lie for a fact since they had had the laptop since late 2019 and Hunter's own lawyers had tried to get it from the FBI so Hunter thought it was his also. Biden for years has been repeating the LIE that the COVID "vaccine" protects you from catching COVID or spreading it and they were willing to force people who were not in danger of dying from COVID to take an experimental drug based on that LIE. How many times did Faucci say he never funded game of function research? How many times did he deny that COVID came out of the Wuhan lab? We have the emails from other virologists early on telling him that the virus came out of that lab. The FBI had direct lines into the social media companies as did the White House and both told FB, Twitter, and who knows who else, which accounts to shaddow ban or simply ban outright and which stories to bury because they were unflattering to the Biden camp.

 

[moke123]

Presidents make their own rules.

You may be confusing that with a King.

 

[Pat Hartman]

You may be confusing that with a King.

It's called executive orders and many Presidents think they are kings.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I've looked to see where and when the docs were actually declassified, but so far I haven't seen where this happened. Trump has claimed he did declassify these docs. It might be a matter of semantics.

You miss the point. The President does not have to tell YOU he declassified anything. Nor does he have to tell the press so looking for an announcement is futile, nor does he have to publish them. In fact, you can be absolutely certain that there would be NO media blitz if Trump had published some of the documents he declassified because the media would have not wanted to publicizm them. No media would ever want to publish the details about the FBI's collusion with the Clinton campaign over the Russia hoax.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Here's a couple of the links I found, including one from moke's favorite "fact" checkers

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

Yes, the president can declassify documents, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow

Former President Trump claimed documents found at Mar-a-Lago were “all declassified.” We explain why sitting presidents can declassify documents and how it works.

www.verifythis.com

 

[moke123]

from your link:

There are other federal laws in place that bar a president from taking government records, whether they are classified or declassified.

 

[Pat Hartman]

@Moke why is Pence not being prosecuted? In the secrecy legislation it doesn't matter if the breach was accidental. Why is no one upset about Biden deliberately taking these documents when he was a Senator and VP? His documents seem to have been specific to the countries he was taking money from. Are Senators and VPs allowed to take home "secret" documents with impunity? Going after Trump for something it seems that anyone else could do with impunity is PERSECUTION. We didn't use to do that in America but now we make an exception for Trump and his supporters. Who is next? The point is to terrify the the population into toeing the party line just like they do in China. China was welcomed into the World Trade organization in the hopes they would prosper and then become more like us. Just the opposite has happened. We are becoming more like them.

Do you like your new country? What ever happened to Justice is blind? Would you follow orders that you know violate the Constitution or would you resign first? The FBI sends 20+ agents with long guns to roust an abortion protestor who the local prosecutor refused to prosecute the year before over a shoving incident, out of bed and scare the crap out of his wife and 7 children? But people who burn down anti-abortion facilities don't get pursued? The man had already offered to turn himself in but the FBI wanted to make a point and so the eary morning raid was necessary. The director's response to this question was that the shoving incident happened in daylight so they knew who the "perpetrator" was but the other incidents happened at night So, folks, feel free to commit all the crimes you want as long as you do them at night because then the FBI can't "see" you and so you will get away with it. But really the point the FBI was making was - Do not disagree with us or we'll get you.

And here is the rest of the paragraph you posted out of context.

Still, breaking those laws – or most other laws – doesn’t automatically disqualify someone from becoming president, because of the simple presidential qualifications that are outlined in the U.S. Constitution.

Defund the FBI.

 

[moke123]

Going after Trump for something it seems that anyone else could do with impunity is PERSECUTION.

Nobody else refused to give them back and claimed they were his.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Trump didn't refuse. He gave them access and they took a bunch of boxes and left the rest for him to finish with.

Whether the others returned the documents or not is not relevant. What is relevant is the crime Pence and Biden committed by taking the documents in the first place. The difference is that it wasn't a crime for Trump to take them. He was involved in what he considered to be "friendly" discussion regarding on whether/when the rest would be sent to the archives. I'm sure it was really critical that the napkins and menus from state dinners be returned to the archives and Trump couldn't keep them. They could then be promptly be displayed as memorabilia from the administration of the greatest president we've ever had. The guests at the events could keep these items but not the President. I get it. Rules are rules. He should have asked one of the guests to take extras for his scrapbook