AWF Slowing Down

[BlueSpruce]

For some time I have seen the same handful of members posting in AWF. What ideas do you have for increasing membership and participation?

 

[Pat Hartman]

Convince Microsoft to actively market Access as a useful tool and a complement to SQL Server. The SQL Server team is convinced that "Access" which they can't separate from Jet/ACE is their competitor. There really isn't anything Jon can do to draw views. A lot of the decline can be directly attributed to changes in the way Google works and how it ranks pages. 20 years ago, I could google myself and I would show up at the top of the first page due partly to my posts here and partly to my high finishes in Bridge tournaments. Today, I am a non-entity.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

When the UA site folded due to criminal charges against its owner, we got a few new members who crossed over (and welcome to them all!) The problem with increasing membership and participation is clearly seen in the questions we get about how to web-enable Access when it doesn't adapt extremely well to web activity. Or questions about when Access is going away.

Access was NEVER designed as a web tool. They tried to retrofit it with ADP extensions but those turned out to not work very well. We have Office help, not just Access help here - but this decline probably reflects the slow decline of Office popularity vs. more modern tools. A lot of the members who post most frequently (see "Members" dropdown to see who is still posting) are up in years. I'll be 78 at my next birthday and have been retired for 10 years now. I can feel myself slowing down and I've seen comments among other members with that same idea. Now, if MS were to do something to revitalize Office in general and Access in particular, I expect our traffic levels would go up.

KitaYama showed us an article about how the great Google Brain has stop showing the top 100 hits according to their algorithm, and now only shows the top 10. If we are #11, we lose out on searches. That is because Google is flexing its corporate muscles. To the detriment of everyone else who relies on web hits.

 

[CJ_London]

At this point in time, according to the site stats, there are 900 viewers looking at the site. Of these, 12 are registered members, the rest are ‘visitors’. Of these there are many robots, including Google.

 

[BlueSpruce]

Convince Microsoft to actively market Access as a useful tool and a complement to SQL Server. The SQL Server team is convinced that "Access" which they can't separate from Jet/ACE is their competitor. There really isn't anything Jon can do to draw views. A lot of the decline can be directly attributed to changes in the way Google works and how it ranks pages. 20 years ago, I could google myself and I would show up at the top of the first page due partly to my posts here and partly to my high finishes in Bridge tournaments. Today, I am a non-entity.

Have many members become inactive ever since the GoogleAds started?.. I think something radically different needs to change for AWF to increase membership and participation. You can't rely on Access to attract more traffic, so this site's model has to change. What makes sites like LinkedIn, FaceBook, and X achieve high volume traffic?

 

[Pat Hartman]

What makes sites like LinkedIn, FaceBook, and X achieve high volume traffic?

They do not revolve around a niche product that only a relatively small number of people have any interest in at all. Only Microsoft can increase the user base and that would drive people to search for answers.

Do you think that Jon should run this site for free out of the goodness of his heart? I seem to remember that there is some base number of posts above which your ads either disappear completely or drop dramatically.

 

[Edgar_]

For some time I have seen the same handful of members posting in AWF. What ideas do you have for increasing membership and participation?

1. Hosting competitions regularly
2. Rotating mods regularly
3. Welcoming new technologies
4. Community projects

Things like 1 and 3 or 1 and 4 could be combined. These don't even require the site owner to be involved, but that would make things easier.

 

[GPGeorge]

I cast a suspicious eye on Chatty and Claude and their LLM siblings.

 

[AccessBlaster]

What's the evidence of a AWF slow down?

 

[BlueSpruce]

They do not revolve around a niche product that only a relatively small number of people have any interest in at all.

Exactly, so you have to play favorites! Buzzwords, like AI, and whatever other fad of the moment is hot. I wouldn't rely on Microsoft for anything. They demonstrated indifference a long time ago by not hanging their own hat on Access.

Do you think that Jon should run this site for free out of the goodness of his heart?

No, I never thought that. With such low traffic I have seen these last months, I don't think GoogleAd's is generating enough revenue to break even. How long can AWF survive if it's not breaking even? I would change the model if the current status quo continues as is.

1. Hosting competitions regularly
2. Rotating mods regularly
3. Welcoming new technologies
4. Community projects

Those are good ideas, but take Access out of the equation. Sorry folks, it's loosing relevancy. Just creating an AI forum is not going to cut it, you have to promote the site on other platforms, like LinkedIn. However, AI would be a "Me Too" strategy. Gotta come up with something different and appealing. Those who pioneer reap the rewards. Come up with something good!

 

[BlueSpruce]

What's the evidence of a AWF slow down?

At this point in time, according to the site stats, there are 900 viewers looking at the site. Of these, 12 are registered members, the rest are ‘visitors’. Of these there are many robots, including Google

It's obvious the same small peanut gallery are the only ones regularly posting.

 

[CJ_London]

What makes sites like LinkedIn, FaceBook, and X achieve high volume traffic?

Those are networking/social sites, not a technical forum. You need to compare with other technical forums. Perhaps stackoverflow?

Agree the comments that AI is starting to attract users over technical forums - but where does AI get its information (aside from online manuals). The way AI is used for technical stuff is basically a more focused search engine

If technical forums cease to exist the AI knowledge base will atrophy

 

[NauticalGent]

If technical forums cease to exist the AI knowledge base will atrophy

 

[AccessBlaster]

It's obvious the same small peanut gallery are the only ones regularly posting.

So views and visits don't count?

 

[BlueSpruce]

So views and visits don't count?

Virtually all those views/visits are bots. Come on, you can easily notice the same small peanut gallery are the only ones regularly active.

 

[BlueSpruce]

Those are networking/social sites, not a technical forum

So let's focus more on AWF's social aspect. We have plenty rhetoric debate going on in forums like Watercooler. All I kno is if AWF stays as is, it's not going to survive long, unless Jon is willing to fund it despite negative cash flow. GoogleAds doesn't pay for artificial visits and views. It knows who's real and who's a bot. It even knows about boiler room users who are hired to visit sites.

 

[CJ_London]

We have plenty rhetoric debate going on in forums like Watercooler.

And how many members is that? Perhaps 20? How many (currently) active threads? 4 or 5?. And most of the threads are about US politics. Not about what your dog got up to last night.

Depends on what you want the site to be about - I think the URL says it all

There are other forums here for things like sql server, web - perhaps that should be split out into html, python, css etc - I perceive there is an interest in making more use of the edge control to display data.

A simple statistic - there is the introduce yourself forum. Since 2010 there have been 10500 introductions - around 700/year, 2 a day. And not every new user introduces themselves. I don’t have the breakdown to see if that represents an increase or decrease over time. And I don’t see any stats on uses closing their membership. I do know that as a moderator I accept one or more new members most days - and reject 2 or more most days as potential spammers. And I’m not the only moderator so the numbers are likely to be higher.

Those stats don’t match up to LinkedIn etc of course - there are many more people looking to expand their network than seeking technical advice.

 

[BlueSpruce]

And how many members is that? Perhaps 20? How many (currently) active threads? 4 or 5?. And most of the threads are about US politics. Not about what your dog got up to last night.

Depends on what you want the site to be about - I think the URL says it all

There are other forums here for things like sql server, web - perhaps that should be split out into html, python, css etc - I perceive there is an interest in making more use of the edge control to display data.

A simple statistic - there is the introduce yourself forum. Since 2010 there have been 10500 introductions - around 700/year, 2 a day. And not every new user introduces themselves. I don’t have the breakdown to see if that represents an increase or decrease over time. And I don’t see any stats on uses closing their membership. I do know that as a moderator I accept one or more new members most days - and reject 2 or more most days as potential spammers. And I’m not the only moderator so the numbers are likely to be higher.

Those stats don’t match up to LinkedIn etc of course - there are many more people looking to expand their network than seeking technical advice.

Forgetabout what AWF was in 2010, I'm talking about what I've seen ever since UA's demise earlier this Summer, not much at all.

Please enlighten by telling me what other AWF forums are experiencing volume traffic.

 

[CJ_London]

You should be able to see for yourself

Access World Forums

Microsoft Access discussion forum

www.access-programmers.co.uk

 

[BlueSpruce]

You should be able to see for yourself

Access World Forums

Microsoft Access discussion forum

www.access-programmers.co.uk

Views are not a reliable metric, and those numbers are really low. What about new threads and posts? Several of those threads have not been active for a while. Perhaps Jon can chime in and tell us if AWF is making ends meet. I'm just trying to stimulate creativity to significantly increase this site's traffic volume.