Best/Worst President (1 Viewer)

the_net_2.0

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Many would argue that Clinton had nothing to do with tax policies "working", and that what we saw was due to Reagan
That's true, but then again, many argue that the tree in my back yard is not 500 years old, but rather 1,000. To me, both arguments are pretty sad.

I think George W. sucked the most for having waged aggressive war in Iraq, and I think there is no greater crime than waging aggressive war.

Lagbolt,

If you could get your language toned down, you'd have a lot to offer. And as for GWB, I think his stupidity becomes painfully obvious when we look at the reason he invaded Iraq. If it wasn't strictly based on finishing what his Daddy started over there, I don't know what it was. It's really too bad that he was more interested in making his father proud than running his own country.

But then again, there you have a classic example of the 'ones in power' fighting with each other and ignoring the real responsibilities that are 'supposed' to come with their jobs. It's absolutely no different than Enron's case back in 06. I think the reason the Enron people were convicted and GWB was not was the fact the GWB was higher up on the ladder than the Enron people were.

It just blows my mind how this 'game' that politicians play can go on and on and on and on and on until there is nothing left. I don't know what to say...I pity them I guess?
 

Jacob Mathai

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In a way, George Washington was an unlucky President. He could not blame the previous Administration.
 

MarkK

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It seems the quality of a presidency might be altered too by the spirit of the nation at that time, for instance, George Bush was almost unanimously supported in his bid to invade Iraq by American popular opinion. Dissenting voices were shunned by the media, and misinformation and misdirection seemed to be the order of the day. But maybe Bush failed the nation to the same degree that the nation failed Bush.
Certainly where I live the invasion of Iraq was not popular and despite enormous pressure from other english speaking governments, Canada did not participate, which pleases me. Thank you Jean Chretien!
But for me Kennedy is the best president, because the last time the US really expressed her greatness was the effort to put a man on the moon. Kennedy set it as a goal, and the people embraced his dream. But such leadership can only exist where there are sufficient followers to enact it.
I think it's probably important to look at the spirit of the nation too when judging the quality of the president.
 

statsman

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But for me Kennedy is the best president, because the last time the US really expressed her greatness was the effort to put a man on the moon. Kennedy set it as a goal, and the people embraced his dream.

Based on the same standard, George W. Bush set a goal of invading Afganistan and Iraq and the American people embraced his dream.

Does this make Mr. Bush your second favourite President? :D
 

MarkK

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Statsman, you must not have read my whole post, or my previous post.
 

ChipperT

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It seems the quality of a presidency might be altered too by the spirit of the nation at that time, for instance, George Bush was almost unanimously supported in his bid to invade Iraq by American popular opinion. Dissenting voices were shunned by the media, and misinformation and misdirection seemed to be the order of the day. But maybe Bush failed the nation to the same degree that the nation failed Bush.
Certainly where I live the invasion of Iraq was not popular and despite enormous pressure from other english speaking governments, Canada did not participate, which pleases me. Thank you Jean Chretien!
But for me Kennedy is the best president, because the last time the US really expressed her greatness was the effort to put a man on the moon. Kennedy set it as a goal, and the people embraced his dream. But such leadership can only exist where there are sufficient followers to enact it.
I think it's probably important to look at the spirit of the nation too when judging the quality of the president.

lagbolt, there were many of us in the US at the time of the Iraq invasion that conditionally supported the decision, based on the WMD line of reasoning. I was one, but at the time I stated that should the WMD production turn out to be false, then we had no right to be there. Of course, I was right. I think it was one of America's darkest hours. We had (and have) no right to be king makers in another country.

As for " because the last time the US really expressed her greatness was the effort to put a man on the moon", that is pure bunk. America expresses its greatness over and over, each time it goes to the aid of the people in other countries who experience disasters, each time our citizens help each other in time of need without looking outside our own borders, each time we support the advance of freedom around the world in non-agressive ways, and a myriad of other ways. In spite of her many man-made flaws, America is great because of her people. American, under Ronald Reagan also showed its greatness in bringing about the downfall of the Soviet regime through non-agressive means.
 

Vassago

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Based on the same standard, George W. Bush set a goal of invading Afganistan and Iraq and the American people embraced his dream.

Does this make Mr. Bush your second favourite President? :D

I think the majority of the American people did not agree with invading Iraq. The goal with Afganistan was supposed to be Bin Laden.

Bush will still go down as the President with the lowest approval rating overall. Yes, even though everyone talks bad about Obama, Bush had a lower approval rating. ;)
 

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The first 2 posts did not declare the country, the following 2 posters chose Presidents from countries other than their own, then the North Americans all assumed that the discussion must be about the USA the only country they know.

Brian
;)
 

Vassago

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The first 2 posts did not declare the country, the following 2 posters chose Presidents from countries other than their own, then the North Americans all assumed that the discussion must be about the USA the only country they know.

Brian
;)

And then the Brits decide to turn it into a bash the USA thread, the only view they know because they think of Americans exactly as they accuse Americans of thinking of other countries, like we're all a single force without individuality. Hypocrits... :cool:
 

Rabbie

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And then the Brits decide to turn it into a bash the USA thread, the only view they know because they think of Americans exactly as they accuse Americans of thinking of other countries, like we're all a single force without individuality. Hypocrits... :cool:
You are being a bit unfair there. I have not bashed the USA at all in this thread. Remember we are all individuals here.
 

Rabbie

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Bush will still go down as the President with the lowest approval rating overall. Yes, even though everyone talks bad about Obama, Bush had a lower approval rating. ;)
Lets wait until the end of his term before discussing his approval rating. It could go down or come back up again
 

Brianwarnock

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And then the Brits decide to turn it into a bash the USA thread, the only view they know because they think of Americans exactly as they accuse Americans of thinking of other countries, like we're all a single force without individuality. Hypocrits... :cool:

There you go again, I didn't accuse all americans only all North Americans, ie including the Canadians, who had contributed to the thread. I rest my case.

BTW the ;) was supposed to mean don't take me seriously.

Brian
 

Vassago

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There you go again, I didn't accuse all americans only all North Americans, ie including the Canadians, who had contributed to the thread. I rest my case.

BTW the ;) was supposed to mean don't take me seriously.

Brian

I didn't take you seriously... :cool: was supposed to denote that. :p Remember, I'm American, I take nothing seriously.
 

Brianwarnock

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I didn't take you seriously... :cool: was supposed to denote that. :p Remember, I'm American, I take nothing seriously.

I wondered about that :cool: and wondered if i was about to be hoist by my own petard.

Brian
 

Vassago

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I wondered about that :cool: and wondered if i was about to be hoist by my own petard.

Brian

Consider yourself petarded. ;)

I can't really say I know of many Presidents with a worse record IMO than Bush as far as doing his job accurately and in the best interest of his country. It's not that I didn't look or think outside the US, I just didn't see the point. lol
 

MarkK

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I'm not trying to 'America bash.' The thread is best/worst president. My point is that the quality of a president and presidency cannot be assessed apart from the character of the people of the day. I used examples.
What interests me is what does it take for a society and that society's leader to achieve greatness? Did Bush fail because his objective was criminal? Why did Apollo succeed? What force made America so great, what was it and where is it now? Is it greatness to help Haiti or the least you could expect?
Maybe, and this is what I'm getting at, it comes down to the decisions each of us make everyday. It has to be that the people, en masse, produce more than they demand in return.
Also, what the hell's a petard?
 

laxster

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Did Bush fail because his objective was criminal?

What laws did Bush break by toppling the Iraq dictatorship? Just curious, since most people who make that statement don't seem to be able to qualify their answers.

Obama has clearly done some criminal acts which are in direct violation of the Constitution, as well as pulling questionable parliamentary tricks...

...but the real reason he is failing is because right now we do not have enough checks and balances, and he is relying on economic and social policies which history has proven do not work.
 

ChipperT

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I'm not trying to 'America bash.' The thread is best/worst president. My point is that the quality of a president and presidency cannot be assessed apart from the character of the people of the day. I used examples.
What interests me is what does it take for a society and that society's leader to achieve greatness? Did Bush fail because his objective was criminal? Why did Apollo succeed? What force made America so great, what was it and where is it now? Is it greatness to help Haiti or the least you could expect?
Maybe, and this is what I'm getting at, it comes down to the decisions each of us make everyday. It has to be that the people, en masse, produce more than they demand in return.
Also, what the hell's a petard?

Ok, you asked for it. Petard is/was an explosive used to breach walls. The name actually comes from the French word for fart (no kidding!). To hoist one on one's own petard means to blow yourself up with your own explosive. A bad (and stupid) thing to do. I think the phrase was first used by Shakespeare if I am not mistaken.:rolleyes:
 

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What laws did Bush break by toppling the Iraq dictatorship? Just curious, since most people who make that statement don't seem to be able to qualify their answers.
One of the main charges against the Nazi Leadership at the Nuremburg War Crimes trial was "Waging Agressive War". There is a prima-facie case against both Bush and Blair that they were guilty of this when they invaded Iraq. Especially as they did not have the backing of the UN. it appears that the evidence of WMDs was much exaggerated and the 45 minute claim was completely unsupported.

Also as far as I can remember there was no formal declarartion of war before the attack on Iraq started. The lack of a declaration of war before Pearl Harbour was what made FDR call it a "day of infamy".
 

Vassago

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What laws did Bush break by toppling the Iraq dictatorship? Just curious, since most people who make that statement don't seem to be able to qualify their answers.

Obama has clearly done some criminal acts which are in direct violation of the Constitution, as well as pulling questionable parliamentary tricks...

...but the real reason he is failing is because right now we do not have enough checks and balances, and he is relying on economic and social policies which history has proven do not work.

Bush didn't break any laws. Exactly what criminal acts has Obama done in violation of the Constitution? People never cite any proof of anything. If you have evidence of such a thing, I'm sure the Supreme Court would love to see it so they can convict him.

Actually, if I understand correctly, the economy is already rising again. What exactly isn't working? Obviously it's going to take much longer than one Presidential term to fix the issues we have, but if it's in an upswing... I don't see how it's not working. :confused:
 

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