Bullies

[Rich]

I agree - never burn bridges - and anyway, if you leave in a huff, you just give the bully the satisfaction of knowing he/she upset you.

So stay and become a yes ma'm no ma'm three bags full ma'm?

 

[Fifty2One]

How come in your profile you are 21 but you have managed for 30 years?

I've managed for 30yrs after following my own advice Brian, please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that someone has to bow down and creep to a bully in work! I've walked out on more than one job in my life and managed without a bloody reference from any of them

 

[MSAccessRookie]

Stop and think about it for a minute, do you really think that bully is going to write a glowing reference for an employee that she obviously doesn't like, I don't think so, no at least the employee has the smug satisfaction of putting the bully straight, diplomacy does not work in these situations

In every company that I have worked for, the HR Department provided neutral employment references and managers were left out of the loop as a safeguard for the company. Of course, the employee can always make a direct request to the manager for a reference as well (which it is safe to assume would not happen in this case).

 

[Rich]

In every company that I have worked for, the HR Department provided neutral employment references and managers were left out of the loop as a safeguard for the company. Of course, the employee can always make a direct request to the manager for a reference as well (which it is safe to assume would not happen in this case).

Not if the bully has wormed her way into the managers good books

 

[MSAccessRookie]

How come in your profile you are 21 but you have managed for 30 years?

Maybe some of the info in the profile is out of date?

 

[Rich]

How come in your profile you are 21 but you have managed for 30 years?

This site's had problems for years

 

[Rich]

Maybe some of the info in the profile is out of date?

Well yes I've been on the site since, oops, I've forgotten for how many years

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

So stay and become a yes ma'm no ma'm three bags full ma'm?

No - I was solely talking about the manner in which I think it is best to effect an exit.

Effect change and stay if practical, grin and bear it if you have no choice, otherwise, leave as soon as possible, and be gracious on your way out the door, whether they deserve it or not.
At best you gain nothing by throwing a wobbly when you leave and at worst, you do yourself various disfavours.

 

[oumahexi]

The problem with bullies is that they illicit a response of anger and, in my experience, usually try to keep themselves just on the right edge, the very edge, of the rules, like Fluffy's managers time keeping or my doctors appointments. It's rarely about what is said so much as how it's said that gets the blood boiling. I think it is designed to provoke a violent reaction so that they can point the finger back and say "that person is unmanagable". Of course, if you play them at their own game they usually end up having the first reaction

 

[oumahexi]

It's quite correct that you have to ask, what if your appointment conflicted with an urgent profgress meeting called by a senior exec, but basically it is just the norm, managers are there to manage staff not be told by them what they, the staff intend to do.

I agree, and for that I would cancel, it wouldn't be the first time I'd cancelled an appointment for the sake of an easy life. The situation is that I have been "under investigation" for over a year now by doctors. It did get that bad at one stage that I had a very bad reaction to their medication and ended up unable to work for four months. Since my return I have juggled appointments to outwith office hours to be as accommodating as possible, to the extent of even having to cancel hospital appointments because there were too many too close together. Now it has got to the stage that the doctors want to just send me into hospital for a battery of tests and I'm telling them it can't take more than a week because that's all the holiday time I have left, having taken most of my holidays to attend doctor/hospital appointments that only took a maximum of an hour out of my day!

The fact of the matter is that people who are liked get to do what they want while those of us who do not grovel get constantly kicked in the teeth, not just on this front but from all angles. There are a few of us in the team who are constantly blocked from progressing in our careers. I have actually been told not to apply for any other job in the department or company because I am needed where I am and I won't get an interview. This was off the record of course.

Staff have to obey the rules, but good managers know when and how to bend them.

Aint that the truth !

Stop and think about it for a minute, do you really think that bully is going to write a glowing reference for an employee that she obviously doesn't like, I don't think so, no at least the employee has the smug satisfaction of putting the bully straight, diplomacy does not work in these situations

And that's the truth, the best you can ever expect is a generic reference from HR. "Yes" that person worked here "Yes" that was their job title. The number of sick days they had was... By law they are not allowed to lie on that and by law they are not allowed to refuse it. You are also supposed to be able to see a copy on request.

 

[Rich]

And that's the truth, the best you can ever expect is a generic reference from HR. "Yes" that person worked here "Yes" that was their job title. The number of sick days they had was... By law they are not allowed to lie on that and by law they are not allowed to refuse it. You are also supposed to be able to see a copy on request.

Well yes you end up with a worthless reference and what would be the outcome for future employment if the employee took the case to court?

 

[Groundrush]

we had a guy here once that on his last day of work gave a little speech where he insulted the majority of the managers & staff

It was like watching an episode of the "OFFICE" the room went silent & when he finished no one knew what to do, clap or just stand there, it was a really uncomfortable experience.

A week later he asked for a reference....DOH!!

 

[Groundrush]

We once had a manager that was a bit of a bully, for years we sufferered under his rule

One day he called us all in for a quick meeting & told us that he was leaving & thanked us all for our hard work etc. You should have seen our faces, some of us couldn't contain themselves, clapped & jeered.

Monday morning he walked back in & said he changed his mind

 

[Brianwarnock]

Originally Posted by Brianwarnock
Staff have to obey the rules, but good managers know when and how to bend them.

Just to be clear on this I meant to assist staff with problems, it would appear that Ouma's company are very uncaring about her situation, but I know from my daughters that the conditions in the workplace are a little harsher than my day with individual managers having less discretion

Brian

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

we had a guy here once that on his last day of work gave a little speech where he insulted the majority of the managers & staff

It was like watching an episode of the "OFFICE" the room went silent & when he finished no one knew what to do, clap or just stand there, it was a really uncomfortable experience.

A week later he asked for a reference....DOH!!

As someone else said upthread though, you can't really be given a *bad* reference, except in whatever might be implied in the statement "We confirm this person was employed by us from [date] to [date] as [position]"

But I'm just not sure what people hope to achieve by going out in a blaze of glory. - If your boss is completely unreasonable, it most often means the system above him is either sympathetic to him, or too incompetent to notice (and either way therefore probably not receptive to your complaints as you exit).

I suppose it can be psychologically helpful to vent your anger, but apart from that, I don't think it does much good.

 

[TessB]

Some companies do "exit interviews" in HR.
They ask questions like "What do you think needs to be improved?"

I have no idea what they do with that data, or if enough people complain about a specific person, if any action is taken.

Also, I have heard that many companies have prohibited anyone from giving any information about an employees performance to requestors as the company may be held liable in preventing the former employee to obtain other employment. I think they are even restricted from giving "letters of reference" for the same reason. I understand the company is just trying to protect itself, but it's sad.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Some companies do "exit interviews" in HR.
They ask questions like "What do you think needs to be improved?"

I was invited to one when leaving job where one of my significant reasons for leaving was style of management.

My impression of the process was:

• They wanted to be seen to be doing the right thing (are exit interviews a stipulation of ISO9000 or something perhaps?)
• They might have been interested in any grievances that couple imply their exposure to litigation, but not really grievances that just arose from bad interpersonal relations.

So even here, I was too cautious to blow any whistles, as I really didn't get the vibe that they were looking for constructive criticism.

I thanked them for the experience of working in a varied, challenging and sometimes demanding environment and for the personal development opportunities all that had brought (none of which was a lie), and went my way, smiling.

 

[Rich]

I suppose it can be psychologically helpful to vent your anger, but apart from that, I don't think it does much good.

But you end up going home "feeling" good instead of bloody miserable every day

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Whatever floats your boat, I guess - but for some people (not everyone, granted), giving in to anger would be defeat.

 

[Rich]

giving in to anger would be defeat.

Weighed up against taking misery from a bully