Can you create a table in your back end while open in the front end?

[JMongi]

Databases do not close automatically. If you open the BE, it stays open until you close it. You can't have a table in design view and expect to use it in the FE but aside from that, there is no problem having both open at the same time

@Pat Hartman - I don't know that I'm doing wrong (or misinterpreting in what I'm seeing).
If I have the devFE open and then do File > Open > devBE the devBE opens (I see the tables in the nav pane) and the devFE is not there anymore. I don't see any open instances in my windows taskbar and I don't see any open windows within Access where the devFE may be hiding. So, I'm not sure what I'm doing incorrectly to not have both open at the same time.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

Having said what's best practice, you can make changes while a backend is in use. What you can't do is change a table that is actually open by a linked user, and you will get a suitable message. You can change tables that aren't in use. It's necessary occasionally.

 

[JMongi]

I don't want to change a back end that is in use. This is a development issue only.

 

[CJ_London]

If I have the devFE open and then do File > Open > devBE the devBE opens

open a new instance of access - depends on your window version but if you right click on the access icon in the taskbar, you should see a list of recently opened files. Whilst the FE is open, open the BE from there. There is also the opportunity to pin the files you are interested in and they will then stay until you unpin them

or just navigate to the BE file and open from the file explorer by double clicking on it

 

[gemma-the-husky]

@Pat Hartman - I don't know that I'm doing wrong (or misinterpreting in what I'm seeing).
If I have the devFE open and then do File > Open > devBE the devBE opens (I see the tables in the nav pane) and the devFE is not there anymore. I don't see any open instances in my windows taskbar and I don't see any open windows within Access where the devFE may be hiding. So, I'm not sure what I'm doing incorrectly to not have both open at the same time.

You need to open a new instance of Access. (Double)click the back end, or shift click the access icon in the task bar.

If you have a database open and select a different or new database in your access, it will close the current database, and open the new one.

 

[JMongi]

Well, that is the epitome of a brain cramp on my part. I don't know why I was using File > Open. I rarely use that in any other Office product. In fact I use right-click on the taskbar to open recent spreadsheets literally EVERY DAY!

No wonder I had everyone confused. Trivial indeed!

 

[Pat Hartman]

Yep, this one was a stumper

Just because your gun is locked and pointed at your head, do NOT change the BE while the users are actively using it even though it is technically possible. Adding a new table won't interfere with anything so it is probably "safe" but I still wouldn't do it. In the earlier advice, no one ever said it wasn't possible. The consensus was to just not do it. It is an unnecessary risk.

 

[JMongi]

Again, I don't know if I misspoke earlier, but, I have no intentions of editing an active BE, only the development BE.
Thank you for the warning.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I feel so much better. This was a really funny thread. It leads us to a lesson in poor design choices. There are multiple ways to open an Access database and different methods have different side effects. I think it is convenient to not have to close Access before opening a new file but I do it so infrequently, I almost always just close the open db anyway. I know that when I open a new db from an open db that the original db gets closed. This is slightly different behaviour than you get with Word and Excel which is I'm sure what caused your confusion. But in the real world, users would never use this feature and programmers only do it rarely. In my case, I'm not usually actively working on more than one db at a time so when I open other db's, it is to search for code I might want to reuse. This is so low down on the list of useful features, I probably would not have implemented it. Or, if I did, I would make it open a second instance of Access so that it works the way other applications in Office work which is what @JMongi was expecting.

There is an old book, written in the 70's and updated a couple of times since then called "The Psychology of Computer Programming". It is not a technical book per se but it does have code examples. It is about the process of programming and how programmers think. It also discusses design choices and why having multiple ways to do anything is poor programming practice and ultimately just confuses the user, ESPECIALLY when those choices have different side effects as this one does even if the options seem to add flexibility.

CONSISTENCY is your friend Good lesson.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

Yes, sometimes while developing I have a back and front end open together as I specifically want to refer to the back end. Sometimes I have different databases open as I want to copy from one to the other without necessarily having to use import/export processes.

I don't see a real difference between modifying a back end while it is in use and while it is not in use, if permitted to by access.

We can be rather didactic about not sharing a front end. The truth is that access is built to be sharable, and making judicious changes to a backend by editing an unused table or adding a new table while the database is in use will rarely (if ever) produce a problem. It's useful to know that it can be done, as in many real world situations it is very difficult practically to ask all users to disconnect from a database.

 

[GPGeorge]

@GPGeorge - I deliberately did not put the question into context because I did not want to muddy the waters. Perhaps that was a mistake. Colin answered my question just fine and I was trying to get some elaboration from him. By the time he resonded to my question in post #3 the thread had already been slipping. Anyway, what's done is done.

As is often the case, because the answer is trivial, it is assumed that I wasn't actually asking it. In this case, it is the very essence of what I am looking for (because apparently I've missed something obvious). When I open the devBE while having the devFE open they do not both remain open. How do I open both at the same time. This would indeed negate my question entirely.

I wrote a blog article a while back on the topic of leaving out details to "simplify" and why it usually backfires.

That aside. Having two instances of Access open simultaneously is the way to achieve your goal.

Open Access. Use it to open the Front End.
Open a second instance of Access. Use it to open the Back End.

 

[isladogs]

Using the method George just described you can easily drag & drop objects from the FE to the BE with no code required

Drag & Drop Database Objects

This explains two methods of using drag and drop with any Access database object. Both methods work with any Access object and have been available since Access 97 (25 years ago) BUT it seems that many experienced developers are not aware of one or both features.

www.isladogs.co.uk

 

[bastanu]

After this lengthy discussion I just wanted to point to some code that does what you originally wanted among other uses:

FBA FE to BE Table Push - ForestByteApps

ForestByteApps - A place for Microsoft Access code samples and utilities to make your life easier. Free Microsoft Access tools and sample VBA code

forestbyte.com

Cheers,

 

[Pat Hartman]

I don't see a real difference between modifying a back end while it is in use and while it is not in use, if permitted to by access.

Are you confusing the process of updating data with the process of updating objects? Early versions of Access allowed multiple users to open the same physical database and make changes to them at the same time. I've never actually done this so I don't know how Access handled conflicts at the time. I know the lock file had a lot more stuff to track than it does today. However, current versions will not allow a second user to update any object, not just the one that the original user changed. Updating objects is very different from updating data.

Think again about your statement. Are you perhaps confusing your development environment with production? In the early stages of development, I am much more likely to have both the FE and BE open at the same time because I am much more likely to have to make BE changes. Later on, not so much. But under no conditions would the FE and BE be being updated at the same time. I am after all, only one person so the jeopardy is minimal plus I am not jeopardizing any production data. Are you truly OK with making a permanent structural change to the BE WITHOUT making a backup? I know a couple of DBA's who would have you shot at sunrise for doing something so dangerous. Databases are rarely backed up more than once per day and usually at night. So if you made an update at 3 PM that crashed the database, your users would lose most of a day's worth of work

 

[JMongi]

I wrote a blog article a while back on the topic of leaving out details to "simplify" and why it usually backfires.

I could also write a blog post about experienced users not reading entire threads before replying and answering what they THINK is being asked instead of what actually is being asked?

Just to be clear, I'm being intentionally feisty, but not seriously

 

[JMongi]

After this lengthy discussion I just wanted to point to some code that does what you originally wanted among other uses:

FBA FE to BE Table Push - ForestByteApps

ForestByteApps - A place for Microsoft Access code samples and utilities to make your life easier. Free Microsoft Access tools and sample VBA code

forestbyte.com

Cheers,

Thank you for the link. Just an fyi, unless I'm doing something incorrectly, I get a 403 error on any of the download pages for your utilities.