Continued theology discussion... Not sure what to call this really.... (1 Viewer)

[Kryst51]

That would change things if the reason of the insult was that non-religious people had the view that religious people thought they were better than everyone else. I don't think it is as simple as that. I think a lot of it is control.

We like to be in control of our own lives. When a religion states that someone is going to hell for not submitting themselves to another's will (i.e. allow themselves to be controlled), that's where I think the initial insult comes from.

Some religions say "you must do x, y, and z otherwise you're a bad person and will suffer for eternity."

People who do not believe look at that as simply some guy said those things, i.e. they have no more weight or importance than Bob down the street saying the same things. But they are insulted by the fact that other people, religious people, think that those words are true, and think that they apply to everyone.

Well, I can't really argue with this, as it does all have to do with perception. Although, I do want to clarify that Christianity says that, You are a bad person...There is nothing you can do to get youself in a position where you will not go to hell...Your only hope is to accept Christ as your Savior, who suffered in your stead...

And yeah, I can see how that is insulting to people. I guess I usually connotate (not sure of spelling or even if I have the right word usage here) "discrimination" with an ill will towards people. And as a Christian, I don't have any ill will towards anyone, nor do most Christians... So I don't think of myself or the religion I follow as being discriminatory. It is open and available for anyone to be a part of if they want to.

I can also understand the part about control. Christianity is all about giving control of our lives up to God, and submitting to His will and authority, and that is not easy to do.

Edit: Nor is it natural to want to give up control... I find it one of the hardest things to do, especially when there are things I want that are not in line with what God wants for me.

 

[dan-cat]

I get the fact that it was easier for some to try to divert the argument onto the whole nature of insults and to try to twist it to be about that, but no-one has yet tried to say that the assertion by Chergh was wrong.

Sounds like you're a bit stupid to me. Insults are designed to attract attention. If you want people to focus on your point, why add elements in your language that encourage people to detract from it?


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By the way, I don't think you're stupid. I was just illustrating how an insult can pull one's focus away from the remaining content of the post.

You're right that the thrust of chergh's post is yet to be addressed.

 

[Alc]

Sounds like you're a bit stupid to me. Insults are designed to attract attention. If you want people to focus on your point, why add elements in your language that encourage people to detract from it?


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By the way, I don't think you're stupid. I was just illustrating how an insult can pull one's focus away from the remaining content of the post.

You're right that the thrust of chergh's post is yet to be addressed.

That's my point. Okay, you could argue that the language used was poorly chosen and this, in turn, led to pathetic personal attacks and attempts to explain them away as 'see how you like it' statements.

Put all that to one side and pretend the original post had ended by saying 'That seems like a rather bizarre and unnecessarily cruel way for someone to act' (which is what the original ending seemed to say, albeit in a more concise if insulting manner). Is there someone out there who doesn't think that acting in that way is cruel and unnecessary?

 

[ColinEssex]

As for manners why do you think that your sacastic comment on the OP's title displayed good manners?

It wasn't good and it wasn't bad. Just a comment.

Dickhead posters who put dumb things like "Help please" as a title need to be told.

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Basically by a religion saying that a person or a group of people is/are going to go to hell, they are saying that that person is a bad person. Thus an insult.

I never considered this an insult, after all how can somebody whom I believe is misled/wrong insult me. Its a bit like the kids who called me 4 eyes, I just ignored them.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

It wasn't good and it wasn't bad. Just a comment.

Dickhead posters who put dumb things like "Help please" as a title need to be told.

Col

You just don't , and never will , get it , there are ways of doing things, yours was petty and unhelpful, and I guess that there is no point continuing this.

Brian

 

[Rich]

If this is correct there still is discrimination as you are saying only the right sort of bad person gets to go to heaven?

You'll be referred to the bible when asking difficult questions

 

[Adam Caramon]

I never considered this an insult, after all how can somebody whom I believe is misled/wrong insult me. Its a bit like the kids who called me 4 eyes, I just ignored them.

Brian

But that is my exact point, Brian. If I say "You are a loser", I am hurling an insult at you. If you are not insulted, does that mean what I said was not an insult?

It's just like being offended. I'm not offended by women walking around in string bikinis, but I know some people who are. They would claim that those women's attire was offensive, where I would not.

Therefore, how do we attribute insult/offense? I think it is intent. If you say something with the intention of insulting someone, then its an insult, regardless if the person that you said it to is actually insulted.

Those kids were trying to make you feel bad because you wore glasses. Even if that did not affect you, why not nip the problem in the bud, so to speak?

If you take offense or are insulted by someone, that usually means that they affected you in some way, and therefore we try not to let the people we think are mislead/wrong affect us. We write them off in our minds as confused, brainwashed, whatever. Which of course is a barrier to communication.

 

[chergh]

I think it is intent. If you say something with the intention of insulting someone, then its an insult, regardless if the person that you said it to is actually insulted.

This raises an interesting point. How about the situation where you know if you do say something you know people will be insulted by it even if your intention is not necessarily to insult them?

 

[dan-cat]

Is there someone out there who doesn't think that acting in that way is cruel and unnecessary?

Well personally I apply Occam's razor to the concept of hell.

You can try to bury deep down in ethics to find a justification for it but the simplest explanation is probably the best. It's an adult equivalent of the booger man to get people to do what they are told.

 

[ShaneMan]

Is it because they are too busy looking for fairies in their garden?

Thank you for providing an example of why they probably don't.

 

[ColinEssex]

You just don't , and never will , get it , there are ways of doing things, yours was petty and unhelpful, and I guess that there is no point continuing this.

Brian

Ok, I'll carry on trying to get people to use the forums correctly then, I notice there are a couple with dimwit titles. I suppose I could help with the wording, but then again it's good practice for them to use English, especially if it is not their first language like in America.

Here's an idea - why don't the so called mods do this? They are so hot on changing / deleting and editing my posts, isn't it about time they did something useful?

I've had my posts in the past edited / deleted and even had wording changed, all with no reference to me. Surely they could apply their egotistical brain to doing this, they appear to do little.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

For what it is worth, the use of "useless" titles is a symptom of a far bigger problem, at least IMNSHO. (the NS is "not so"...)

The younger posters are members of the "instant gratification" society, wanting to get something fast for nearly no effort. They have yet to learn what it means to do their own work, much less take the time to learn how to ask questions the right way. So they take the "pity me" approach.

I wish I could say that they will learn, but all too many of them will eventually realize that MS Access isn't that easy and will eventually seek a different career. We can only hope they decide sooner rather than later. In the meantime, while I don't try to be cruel, I don't have the time to pull punches when punches are truly deserved.

The ones I love are the obvious "I don't want to do my own homework because I have not studied at all" crowd. If I see one more question about someone simulating an airline booking system or a class scheduling system or a used car sales support system, I will probably jump up on my desk to do the "screaming howler monkey" dance.

 

[Kryst51]

If I see one more question about someone simulating an airline booking system or a class scheduling system or a used car sales support system, I will probably jump up on my desk to do the "screaming howler monkey" dance.

Just make sure to get video and post it here, so that all can benefit from the monkey dance. I for one could use the laughter.

 

[Rich]

How about the situation where you know if you do say something you know people will be insulted by it even if your intention is not necessarily to insult them?

Too late, the kangaroo court has already found you guilty and sentenced you to a tirade of personal abuse

 

[chergh]

Too late, the kangaroo court has already found you guilty

Bunch of dicks

 

[Rich]

Bunch of dicks

And I'm told their mothers like it too

 

[dan-cat]

Thank you for providing an example of why they probably don't.

Nail hit squarely on the head.

 

[Rich]

Thank you for providing an example of why they probably don't.

It's not like you to give in that easy Shane

 

[ShaneMan]

It's not like you to give in that easy Shane

I guess it could be seen as giving in but to me it's more like peeing into the wind. It doesn't make sense to do it, so don't.