Covid: When conspiracy theories come true

I have to admit that my wife and I have had our COVID shots. When that pandemic scare started, we personally knew people who lost their parents to COVID-19. There were many deaths and I looked at the specs online for the vaccines. I knew we were not allergic to the ones based on albumin as a carrier (Pfizer, e.g.). We waited and when a little time had passed, we talked to the doctor and decided to risk it. During the peak of the pandemic, my brother-in-law got COVID and said it was like a bad flu but he recovered pretty well. His fiancee got it twice, she got over it in a couple of days. My stepson got COVID and said it was like the flu but not the worst he'd ever had. A close family friend got COVID twice and both times HE said it was like a two-day flu.

However, it seems like some vaccines were not very effective, or it might be that some aspect of COVID attacks people who are unusually sensitive to it. I've seen a LOT of back-and-forth commentary online and the part that is bad is that SOME folks develop clots in their lungs. THOSE are the people who needed something and yet the vaccine they got wasn't helping.

I'm convinced that I avoided COVID through three situations in descending order of effect:
1. I didn't get into crowds that often.
2. I take daily walks and I've read reports that COVID doesn't like vitamin D. Which I get from 75-minute walks once a day.
3. I took the vaccine (several times now) and have never reacted to it.

Now to find the things that have been suppressed all this time? Someone's head is going to have to roll for that, figuratively speaking. I'll bet we find that, when used during the first 48 hours, Ivermectin would have been a good palliative to help you throw off COVID more comfortably. All that NIH trash-talk about that and other useful off-label applications is just that - trash talk prompted by Big Pharma because they couldn't make any money off of the off-label drugs.
 
My wife and myself haven't had a single injection of any claimed Covid protection.

We are not anti-vaxxers and have been vaccinated for just about everything over the years. As were our children. We simply couldn't understand how a super-duper protection could be created in such a short time. They were claiming that they could with this type of science slightly amend it to cure just about anything with little or no testing. It made no sense. And after all, once it was injected you cannot get it out.
They were amending mRNA, which can amend your DNA in ways they cannot predict. How in such a short time, could there be such certainty and confidence about long term effects? We saw many cases with friends and family, where one was given one vaccine and the other partner another. Does that not indicate an experiment is in progress to you? And all of this followed many seminars over the previous five years or so by WHO, Gates and others discussing pandemics. Plus every government in the world shut their countries down within the same week. Within the same week, Governments who normally cannot agree even if it is day or night. It was cause for suspicion and caution in my opinion.

Additionally, we simply didn't see that the so called experts appearing on TV every day pontificating about the virus and attempting to convince with the graphs that they had just coloured in, had a clue about what they were saying. Chris Whitless, Liberty Vallance and Boris Johnson for some. We were startled when the senior UK nurse was sacked for not 100% following the diktat of what was increasingly looking like propaganda. (We think that Boris Johnson didn't have Covid but got himself into hospital to hide because the whole thing was simply beyond him) Some of those people dashed out and spent upwards of £700,000 on shares in vaccine manufacturers. Many MPs and others sold useless protection to the government making many millions in the process. When it was nearly over some of those were given knighthoods and huge rewards. In fact a woman credited with creating a vaccine was made a dame, or whatever. And then the vaccine she developed was withdrawn. We even had Bill Gates getting in on the act. That was the Bill who appears only to be interested in selling anything in the billions. Many other tax efficient but very profitable non-profit-organisations jumped on the band waggon.

Many people we know have had vaccines that have since been banned. Most of the people we know who were injected did catch Covid, often multiple times. There were people who were vaccinated who wouldn't visit, or allow us to visit because we weren't vaccinated. Including family members! I could never understand that, as we were the "unprotected" ones. They should, if the propaganda was to believed, were safe from infection and we posed no risk whatsoever to them. They believed the propaganda. Worse, even though it was pretty much fact that children were immune. They were vaccinated to save the teachers and lecturers. Some companies forced staff to be vaccinated with threats of dismissal. Doctors, consultants and nurses were sacked by the NHS for questioning anything related to Covid. Simply to force compliance. Which they did.
Flu vaccines should be kept at 2ºc to 8ºc and kept away from light. But how many times have you gone and seen a dozen of them rolling about on the doctor's desk waiting to be used?

Now what do the medical profession see? More specific types of cancer, increases in aneurisms and blood clots. What will the long term effects? Particularly on vaccinated children as they become adults and have their own children with the changes in their DNA?

Now we are seeing pressure by GPs to encourage patients to have the newest vaccine each autumn and winter, no doubt in an attempt to increase their income by increased vaccinations. Even the flu jab is suspect with an efficacy of 10% to 40% but always heavily promoted. Three thousand patients with a jab at, at least £40 a time. All done in a day with all the staff and their children assisting. Not bad money if you can get it. Little wonder they push these, possibly useless and possibly dangerous drugs. Who hasn't been ill after a flu jab? I stopped them in 2017 because within a few days or a week I was always ill. In 2017 I was really bad after one for over a month. During Covid the NHS approved the unapproved US flu vaccine for use in the UK.

There is little doubt that the drug companies with the assistance of the doctors are studying right now, just how they can create another pandemic.
Keep it simple, maintain the fear.
 
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We simply couldn't understand how a super-duper protection could be created in such a short time. They were claiming that they could with this type of science slightly amend it to cure just about anything with little or no testing. It made no sense. And after all, once it was injected you cannot get it out.
Amen, amen and A-MEN
 
They were amending mRNA, which can amend your DNA in ways they cannot predict.
That's bull!
Particularly on vaccinated children as they become adults and have their own children with the changes in their DNA?
and again!

The basic biology of DNA is that DNA is an instruction set for building various proteins. The instructions are passed from the nuclear DNA to the ribosomes where proteins are built in the cytoplasm via the mRNA. It does not go the other way.
 
@GaP42

WEBSITE->https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html
WEBSITE->https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-covid-vaccine-sweden-study-986569377766
WEBSITE->https://www.science.org/content/art...-unintended-proteins-there-s-no-evidence-harm

Of course Pfizer, Moderna et al say it is safe. As do governments. Vested interests do not always provide a balanced conclusion.
mRNA vaccines to be effective must be kept at low temperatures. Has anyone in a vaccination centre seen any adherence to that?
The Corona-Virus Act came into law in the UK in March 2020. It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, it was previously prepared and went through on the nod almost before the public knew anything about Covid. . Probably one of the most onerous Acts since the last war.

We were told that tobacco, asbestos and Teflon was safe and could not affect the human body. With Teflon didn't it take over twenty years? Have the volunteers from the early Corona-Virus tests been compensated, or are they still fighting for the money promised?
There was factual knowledge in the 1920's and earlier that cigarettes and asbestos caused premature deaths. It was claimed by governments that asbestos was safe, mainly because there wasn't an alternative, or replacement. It took over sixty years for change, whilst thousands died. Today vaping is promoted as safe. Albeit in relation to cigarettes but nonetheless, safe.....no mention of possible downsides. Just that it is safe..

The thing is that this vaccine experiment isn't even five years old. If you are happy to accept the assurances, then fine. But there is a great deal of peer debate that is sceptical. Just like climate change, none of the money goes to sceptical opinion. The fact is that just two or three years on and we simply do not know. But there are worrying and unexplained indicators. Maybe keep an eye on the ONS (Office For National Statistics) to compare numbers before and after. Also bear in mind that the during the pandemic UK government doctored data and instructed death certificates to state Covid as cause wherever possible during the pandemic. Virtually everyone dying in a care home were given Covid as cause. Some of these people aren't as pleasant as they make out.

To reiterate, from previous form, we simply do not know if Pfizer, Moderna and governments are being entirely honest with us do we?
 
It really makes you wonder about everything we were told about COVID-19 from the start. For years, anyone who even suggested the virus might have come from a lab was shut down, censored or called a xenophobic conspiracy theorist. But now, even government agencies admit it’s a real possibility. Trump was one of the only people who brought it up early on, yet the media and politicians worked hard to make sure no one took the idea seriously. So, were they wrong back then, or are they still not telling us the full story now?

If vaccines haven't already found their way into our food supply, it's just a matter of time.

Off to eat my breakfast, tri-tip and eggs :D
 
It took the scientific community 40 years to realize that ranitidine was causing cancer 40 years after the time it was the most popular drug in the world. The idea that they made the covid vaccine safe in a few months of studying was always ridiculous and will always will be ridiculous
 
@Cotswold - you do realize that what these show does not support the misinformation that I was flagging in your post.
They were amending mRNA, which can amend your DNA in ways they cannot predict.
Website 1 - is about epigenetics, and in this case mRNA having an effect on the regulation of DNA: ie its suppression or promotion of the genetic code to result in more or less of the coded protein - it does not alter the DNA. The DNA is not amended, and it is not a study into the COVID vaccine.
Website 2 - This directly contradicts your claim - the link says
CLAIM: A Swedish study shows that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine changes recipients’ DNA.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The study tested whether the vaccine’s mRNA could be converted to DNA, and found that this was the case in certain lab-altered liver cell lines under experimental conditions. It did not assess whether the vaccine alters the human genome, or what the effects of that would be, according to experts and the study authors. Experts say additional research is needed because the findings in the lab setting cannot be used to make inferences about what might happen in a human body.

THE FACTS: Social media users are citing a study from Sweden that was published in February to push the unproven theory that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines permanently alter recipients’ DNA.

A clip being shared online in recent days shows three doctors, who have spread misinformation about the vaccines in the past, discussing the Swedish study and falsely claiming it demonstrates that “the Pfizer vaccine reverse transcribes and installs DNA into the human genome,” leading to harmful effects.
So it appears to be an unjustifiable jump - at least not one that can be claimed with any certainty - as you did.
Website 3 - this talks about the mRNA in COVID vaccines producing proteins (including some differences) - which is what mRNA does and what I
To reiterate, from previous form, we simply do not know if Pfizer, Moderna and governments are being entirely honest with us do we?
Nor you.

said is its job. It has no relevance to the misinformation you where peddling about mRNA amending DNA.
 
said is its job. It has no relevance to the misinformation you where peddling about mRNA amending DNA.
Whilst you clearly believe what you are saying.
I am saying that you cannot accept everything at face value, particularly from Big Pharma, or governments'. We all need to decide if they are, or are not misleading.
DuPont swore blind that Teflon was safe and produced their versions of conclusive scientific evidence to support their claims for over 20 years. With some government or state support I may add. Today there is the opinion that not a single person alive is without Teflon in their body. From cooking, carpets, clothes, water supplies, etc....the list goes on. We never cook with Teflon coated containers, so will never have an Air Fryer that must have the cheapest possible coatings .

Plus alternative scientific opinion is not always agreeing with Big Pharms and governments'. Despite the bullying and attempts to shut them down. Covid virus was only isolated in 2019. The Oxford-Astra-Zeneca vaccine was withdrawn in 2024 after 1Billion doses had been given. Brilliant news!
Up to now it is very early days but you believe their AI and vague science if you want to. I do not.

If you want to believe the stuff about mRNA, then as I have said, fine but I am sceptical. If I am wrong to disbelieve it is my choice, not yours, or governments'. But let's face it, if there were side effects, do you think for a moment that Big Pharma would tell you about them? Would they be more likely to secretly attempt to fix the issue and then, if failing quietly drop it? Answers on a postage stamp to......
 
Whilst you clearly believe what you are saying.
I am saying that you cannot accept everything at face value, particularly from Big Pharma, or governments'. We all need to decide if they are, or are not misleading.
DuPont swore blind that Teflon was safe and produced their versions of conclusive scientific evidence to support their claims for over 20 years. With some government or state support I may add. Today there is the opinion that not a single person alive is without Teflon in their body. From cooking, carpets, clothes, water supplies, etc....the list goes on. We never cook with Teflon coated containers, so will never have an Air Fryer that must have the cheapest possible coatings .

Plus alternative scientific opinion is not always agreeing with Big Pharms and governments'. Despite the bullying and attempts to shut them down. Covid virus was only isolated in 2019. The Oxford-Astra-Zeneca vaccine was withdrawn in 2024 after 1Billion doses had been given. Brilliant news!
Up to now it is very early days but you believe their AI and vague science if you want to. I do not.

If you want to believe the stuff about mRNA, then as I have said, fine but I am sceptical. If I am wrong to disbelieve it is my choice, not yours, or governments'. But let's face it, if there were side effects, do you think for a moment that Big Pharma would tell you about them? Would they be more likely to secretly attempt to fix the issue and then, if failing quietly drop it? Answers on a postage stamp to......
Plus science changes its mind every month. But of course it has to because the whole point is to keep inquiring and doubt the past. If you weren't keeping an open mind, it wouldn't be the scientific method
 
Whilst you clearly believe what you are saying.
I am saying that you cannot accept everything at face value, particularly from Big Pharma, or governments'. We all need to decide if they are, or are not misleading.
DuPont swore blind that Teflon was safe and produced their versions of conclusive scientific evidence to support their claims for over 20 years. With some government or state support I may add. Today there is the opinion that not a single person alive is without Teflon in their body. From cooking, carpets, clothes, water supplies, etc....the list goes on. We never cook with Teflon coated containers, so will never have an Air Fryer that must have the cheapest possible coatings .

Plus alternative scientific opinion is not always agreeing with Big Pharms and governments'. Despite the bullying and attempts to shut them down. Covid virus was only isolated in 2019. The Oxford-Astra-Zeneca vaccine was withdrawn in 2024 after 1Billion doses had been given. Brilliant news!
Up to now it is very early days but you believe their AI and vague science if you want to. I do not.

If you want to believe the stuff about mRNA, then as I have said, fine but I am sceptical. If I am wrong to disbelieve it is my choice, not yours, or governments'. But let's face it, if there were side effects, do you think for a moment that Big Pharma would tell you about them? Would they be more likely to secretly attempt to fix the issue and then, if failing quietly drop it? Answers on a postage stamp to......

Anybody who actually understands the entities and the relationships that are involved in clinical trials and drug approvals, and still believes everything they say, frankly is a moron
 
Plus science changes its mind every month.

Then there is Finagle's Law of Experts: You can take all the experts on a particular subject and lay them in a straight line, head to toe, and they STILL won't reach a conclusion.
 
If you want to believe the stuff about mRNA, then as I have said, fine but I am sceptical. If I am wrong to disbelieve it is my choice, not yours, or governments'.
Just sayin' the crap that you were promoting about RNA altering DNA is BULL. That was ALL I was saying. I did not argue about any other point (altho much more was contentious). I hope you can comprehend. And while you might believe anything you want to, to try and put out a false narrative - which is counter to established scientific understanding (not withstanding that science does advance and thereby change through the scientific method) is either deliberate/malicious misinformation to falsely advance that crap view in public fora, or myopic uninformed rubbish on your part.

Came across this today - published 1 Feb 2025 in Journal
Scientists just discovered an RNA that repairs DNA damage
You might think on the basis of the headline that it might support your original statement. However the RNA does not alter the genetic code of the DNA it repairs damage to enable it to function accurately in providing the instructions to then make the messenger RNA (the rNA invovled in repair of the DNA is NOT mRNA - it is non-coding)

And @Isaac has such an opinion about his own infallible opinions that he follows the blind blindly.
 
Just so much bull @Pat Hartman. In the particular - they are not the same scientists/people. In general they are - they are scientists they are experts in genetics and molecular biology - unlike you who puts up the straw man argument that they claimed you could not contract COVID. Get real.
So scientists collectively collude and scheme to lie to us ... and you will never trust anything they say? Your experience may colour your views, however no matter - the work they do is subject, through the rigor of the scientific method subject to review, test, replication, analysis: not unsupported opinion as you espouse. Do you rely upon the development of drugs and treatments? Do those get handed down from generation to generation or the hearsay of your witchdoctor? Hypocritical no?
 
In a truly scientific environment, all claims whether mainstream or controversial should be tested against data and logic, not silenced for political or ideological reasons.
 
the work they do is subject, through the rigor of the scientific method subject to review, test, replication, analysis: not unsupported opinion as you espouse

Sorry, but you left out an important link... that the people who disseminate the information might not be the ones who did the work or verified it or tested it. They might be politically motivated to "intercept and alter" the message. And NO, I will NOT accept you denying the possibility of a biased reporter or a biased government person speaking on behalf of the government.

Remember that I am intimately familiar with the scientific method, having used it while doing the research that earned me my Ph.D... EARNED, not just AWARDED. The weak link in the chain is the person who reveals the results and how the results are revealed. The stuff that got Dr. Fauci in trouble lately is that his risky little short-cuts and end-arounds were revealed.
 
s/ I live in fear of your undoubted wisdom re the scientific method @The_Doc_Man: trembling in awe of your authority /s :oops: ... I was not leaving out the link you described. it was in relation to Pat's statements which were not about what you are discussing. The research conducted by scientists and the application of the scientific method is one part, the use/misuse of that information (by others/ reporters/ authorities / or by supervisors) is another as they pursue fame, or monetary or political reward. We all have biases (and politics seems a particularly strong influence) that can affect how we interpret things, but the data remains, and so we ignore it at our peril or we find new (better) ways of understanding it (through application of the methods of science).

Scientists are not immune from bias. However the application of the scientific method is probably the best tool, with its exposure of methods, data, and peer review that we have available to us to advance knowledge of the physical world. In the medical sphere (not chemistry) where often the investigations have consequences for humans, the process has a particular construct involving generally use of animals/analogues and progressing ultimately to clinical trials using a double blind protocol.

Collaboration or as Pat would have it, collusion, has to occur because the knowledgebase is so large, the areas of expertise often narrow, that needs to be drawn together to properly develop and execute a scientific investigation. Or was she only talking about the post-science part of the process - but tainting everyone involved in the process, from the scientists who we able to develop mRNA vaccines to the politicians promoting their use? Seems to me she was attacking the scientists only. So are you comfortable as a scientist with this:
Are these the same people who told us that if you took the COVID vaccine that you could not contract COVID?

Once the scientists collude to lie to us, nothing they say carries any weight.
Do you think that they (scientists) said you could not contract COVID if you took the COVID vaccine? Do you think those that developed the vaccine and wrote the scientific papers expressed their conclusions in such a manner? But then there were other events going on, and pressures, political and potential monetary rewards, that gloss over/misrepresent/ misinterpret. Did it invalidate the original work? The scramble to address an immediate threat created an overwhelming political motivations to do something - almost anything. We rely upon experts, and in some cases non-experts, to jump from what was known about the disease to what were thought to be reasonable steps to prevent and treat, where you do not have the time to conduct controlled tests. Hindsight is wonderful. Many health workers and other died.

And then do you feel that under such a blanket statement that your scientific work carries no weight? OK we are not talking about your work. Perhaps we are only talking about those who develop vaccines. Well vaccine hesitancy arises as an outcome. We all have to make our own decisions when it comes to vaccinations. Drug risk and effectiveness are not constant or always apparent. Still I wonder how we may react with the next pandemic - such as when Bird Flu becomes human-to-human transmissible. How hesitant will we be.
 
Scientists are not immune from bias. However the application of the scientific method is probably the best tool, with its exposure of methods, data, and peer review that we have available to us to advance knowledge of the physical world.

Actually, on this statement, we agree. It is the non-transparency of government spokespersons - admittedly from many different presidents - that prevents the people from seeing truth. And the obfuscation of apologists who cloud the discussion. And the counter-statements of those seeking to make money. Plus the conspiracy theory nut-cases.

Do you think that they (scientists) said you could not contract COVID if you took the COVID vaccine?

The problem is that most people wouldn't recognize a real scientist walking down the street or talking on TV. What's that joke/meme that shows up now and then? "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV"... THAT is who people recognize. Paid TV spokespersons.

When I was spending my weeknights running many hundreds of experimental runs in chemical kinetics, nobody knew about that. They recognized me for what I did in public to pay my way through college - by playing music in a well-located bar on Bourbon Street. Oh, they STILL didn't know my name - but they knew I played an electronic organ on stage in a bar. "I've seen you somewhere... oh, yeah, I heard you playin' the organ that night I got blitzed at the El Morocco club with my friends." Ah, fickle fleeting fame!

People don't recognize scientists unless they start doing something flashy or extremely useful. HISTORY books recognize them, and that is more likely how scientists become widely known. Do you think Edison was THAT well known before his invention of electric lights? Do you think Einstein or Oppenheimer were well known before the Alamogordo atomic bomb tests? Do you think anyone cared about Gregor Mendel until his work in genetics was published? They were scientists before the big newsworthy events... but nobody knew or cared. As is typical for the modern man (not just USA, but world-wide, I would think), "if it ain't newsworthy, I ain't interested."

And then do you feel that under such a blanket statement that your scientific work carries no weight?

My work carried weight but, as is usual, is buried in a journal with the "reference" abbreviation of Anal. Chem Acta - which is a (typically) obscure magazine for publication of analytical chemistry articles. The only people likely to see it are folks researching isopoly or heteropoly metal oxide anion behavior. The "man on the street" wouldn't know me. Which has the effect of blunting anything I have to say.

But then there were other events going on, and pressures, political and potential monetary rewards, that gloss over/misrepresent/ misinterpret.

And therein originates the misinformation. For instance, are you aware that the "97% of all climate scientists believe that 'global warming' is man-made" statement is nowhere near as strong as it sounds? It stems from a survey that asked the question "Do you believe that man-made actions contribute to global warming in some degree?" But it didn't ask anything specific about the perceived degree of contribution! Hell, even I would answer yes to that question if asked. But my perceived degree of contribution would be "minuscule" and would further suggest "It is POSSIBLE because we can't rule it out". But what happened next was that some jerk-wad JOURNALIST (not a scientist) published "97% of scientists agree global warming is man-made." And that statement, with its absolute authoritative style, has burdened our society since then, even though we no longer call it global warming. It is now "climate change" - which is ANOTHER joke since climate change is what the Earth naturally accomplishes every so often.

The statements that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine were useless in treating COVID is another one of those distortions, claiming that off-label use of a drug is a big no-no. Tell that to people who are taking metformin rather than taking insulin injections. And then they find that metformin has beneficial coronary side effects - off-label, of course. Big Pharma wouldn't make money off of COVID if there were already a cheaper palliative to get you through the worst initial symptoms. So they got some of their stooges to quash the idea that ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine could minimize your down time.

I apologize because I see I got on my "soap box" about being ignored despite having something to say that I believe to be correct and important.

Have a good day, @GaP42 - I wish you no ill. I just sometimes have to rage against the wind.
 
There are many ways science can be corrupted. Here are a few recent examples:

  • Pharmaceutical Influence: Pharmaceutical companies fund a large portion of medical research, which can lead to biased studies favoring their products.
  • Government Manipulation: Governments can shape scientific findings to align with policy goals. For example, during the COVID-19 pandemic, various claims and policies shifted in response to political pressures.
  • Censorship of Dissenting Scientists: During the pandemic, scientists who expressed dissenting views were often de-platformed or ridiculed, even when they raised valid concerns.
  • Dr. Anthony Fauci & Scientific Controversy:
    • Mask Flip-Flopping – Initially advised against masks, later advocated for universal masking.
    • Lab-Leak Suppression – Early dismissal of the lab-leak theory despite credible concerns.
    • Gain-of-Function Research – NIH-funded projects raised concerns about potential ties to COVID-19 research in Wuhan.
 

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