Cyber bullying - fact or fiction? (1 Viewer)

[Bladerunner]

With Freedom comes responsibilities and consequences as well but Freedom of Speech is the number one item in the bill of rights (US only). You are right, you have a responsibility not to shout Fire in a movie Theater without there being a fire. One, it is against the law and two it could and usually does cause someone to suffer bodily harm.

"You can't tell people you are a cop and search their person if you aren't". There is a law preventing the impersonation of an law officer.

"You can't verbally harrass someone. " ?????? In other words, I cannot tell someone what I think about them. Guess that would have to be put in the civil liabilities section for 'Harassment/Hate Crimes'. What's next, A crime because of what I am thinking? Of course my definition of 'verbal harassment' is evidently different from yours.

"You can't publicly or even privately bash a company you work for and expect to not be fired if they get wind of what you did." Yes you can and it is not against the LAW although there are some people who think it should be. Having expectations of NOT being fired because of the bashing.... Well, 'Live and Learn" Personally, if I ever got to a point where I had to bash a company I worked for, I would already be 'in the GONE mode'

"You can't create a Facebook page pretending to be someone else and knowingly post falsehoods about the person in attend to defame them. You can be sued and likely would lose. That's not protected freedom of speech and you'll have to face the consequences". Are you allowed to create a Facebook page pretending to be anyone and knowingly post truth-hoods about a person in an attempt to defame them? Probably and it is not illegal and certainly is a protected part of the Freedom of Speech. Defamation is hard to prove for a company or an individual in most all cases.

"All of these things come with consequences. You end up in jail with charges. Why should bullying be any different?" Because the bullying you speak of is just words from someone most likely you do not know.

One Bullying Item you left out is: A Threat. Any Threat of life or limb, a threat to cause damage to ones property or family is Illegal and can be pursued by the law enforcement community. While a threat is also just words, it depicts an intention to do something that will physically harm someone.

What you call bullying is what I call hurting someones feelings. Real bullying always in the past resulted in physical contact in an attempt to force someone weaker to do something they would normally not do. Liberals do not believe in the old saying "Sticks and Stones can break my bones but words can never harm me". You open up a social media account such as Facebook, tell everybody almost every thing about you and expect someone not to take advantage of it. A little naive and not something I would do.

While I have already probably said too much, let me address the Forums like the one in which I will post this page. I do not post my picture, post only a small amount of info about my location (although someone can track my IP address easily enough) with privacy in mind. I think these type forums are helpful and lead the way to control excessive "bullying" (for lack a another word). If Facebook had by region (maybe a smaller area) moderators who had the power and fortitude to remove articles and even members for misusing the forum, "bullying" would only exist in very small amounts. I do not consider it a right to be on this or any other forum but a privilege that must be carefully cultivated. In addition and most important, I get the help I need to continue learning the in's and out's of Access. Thank You ALL!

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[scott-atkinson]

While I have already probably said too much, let me address the Forums like the one in which I will post this page. I do not post my picture, post only a small amount of info about my location (although someone can track my IP address easily enough) with privacy in mind. I think these type forums are helpful and lead the way to control excessive "bullying" (for lack a another word). If Facebook had by region (maybe a smaller area) moderators who had the power and fortitude to remove articles and even members for misusing the forum, "bullying" would only exist in very small amounts.

A moderator would have access to all the personal information on the pages of those he moderates, so what is the different between this and asking people to provide identity and location details when they sign up to Facebook without moderators...?

Currently in Facebook, and in this forum, if a moderator bans a member for a rules break, that member simply joins under a different member name and ID... if user identities and IP addresses were provided up front, a perpetrator could be completely banned for life... surely that is enough discouragement from posting defamatory and hurtful remarks against somebody??

 

[Bladerunner]

A moderator would have access to all the personal information on the pages of those he moderates, so what is the different between this and asking people to provide identity and location details when they sign up to Facebook without moderators...?

Currently in Facebook, and in this forum, if a moderator bans a member for a rules break, that member simply joins under a different member name and ID... if user identities and IP addresses were provided up front, a perpetrator could be completely banned for life... surely that is enough discouragement from posting defamatory and hurtful remarks against somebody??

It was just an Idea. I use a program that gives me the IP address of users coming into my website. But your telling me a group of distinguished programmers assembled here cannot do that?

Simply ban the IP address. why would you have to have the identity of the person.. It does not matter. I am not going to loan my car to a bank robber. If people lose their IP address or the ability to have internet, they will be more careful of who uses their services. While my site is a home address, I still restrict what can be downloaded, or looked at it they are using my wifi.

FYI: George Sorros (Hungary) has donated (since 1994) 80 Million in an effort to legalize POT in the U.S. WHY?????? because POT people are liberal and will vote liberal everytime.

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[scott-atkinson]

Simply ban the IP address. why would you have to have the identity of the person.. It does not matter. I am not going to loan my car to a bank robber. If people lose their IP address or the ability to have internet, they will be more careful of who uses their services. While my site is a home address, I still restrict what can be downloaded, or looked at it they are using my wifi.

There is no point in banning an IP address if that IP Address means nothing, ie... signing up to Facebook from a public IP address, in that instance you are not banning the person but the establishment that owns that IP...

Social media should only be signed up to from a residential IP address only, that way if you do ban the IP, you ban the person also, they would have to create a new profile by either buying a new PC, and registering it as residential, or using a friends residential IP, and frankly if you know somebody is risking you from being banned, and already has a history of banishment, would you seriously let them use your PC.!!!

If this was the case you would go some way in solving Bullying, as instantly the perpetrator becomes visible to the police, trace the registered IP, you trace the person... of course the hardened criminal would use a false address, but if they are intent on this then chances are they are already known to the Police anyway...

 

[Bladerunner]

There is no point in banning an IP address if that IP Address means nothing, ie... signing up to Facebook from a public IP address, in that instance you are not banning the person but the establishment that owns that IP...

This is the problem and as long as it is in it present form, you will not do away or make any dent with bullying over the internet. By signing up social media to residential (I have no problem with that) you would doom the same businesses as you would if you removed their IP address for misuse. What constitutes social media, (This forum???, etc.). There are ways,, example below:

Lets say I use social media and like to drink coffee at a small shop on the corner. Now, they have wifi and allow (actually promote the wifi for extra business) you to do social media. Would it be too hard for them to
actually restrict their WIFI to people who fill out their name/ address, etc. and (give out passwords).Yes, the shop owner would keep the record. Now before you start, these shop owners already have a responsibility to their customers and know a lot of them by name. Just where is this information going to go. Its not like they need your social security number or your birthday. If there is a bullying happened on their IP address, they know who logged on during this specific time period. The person could be caught without restricting others rights or privileges. If a business becomes known for harboring bullies, then they are not likely to succeed for very long. Now I know there are people that are going to yell to the top of their lungs, 'I have Rights',. Wrong---the internet at least in the U.S. is not a right but a privilidge that can and should be taken away if abused.

Someone will say, if you sign up for Facebook, you can bully at a later date. I say , if I use your wifi, then I should have the right to have some type of info on you allowing identification. Either way, Facebook should have a record of the date you signed up and the IP address that you signed up from. Go back there and find the person. Under these conditions, bullying would be like polio, disappears in a few years.

Have a nice day:>)
Bladerunner

 

[scott-atkinson]

We are both thinking along the same lines here...

Bullying on the Internet will never be eradicated whilst their is widespread anonymity..

 

[Bladerunner]

There are individuals on this site who have been banned. They simply log in with a different computer (most households have more than 1) or use IP masking software. http://www.mask-myip.com/

AB--Understand. I myself have more than one computer. However, if they get banned by doing something they should not from one computer, will they be so eager (if they re-sign up under another alias and computer) to go through the same thing. How many from this site have resigned up and you have had to kick them off again? REm, most everyone has a pattern of speaking (some more than most -myself included) and that pattern is not easily changed. Sooner or later they are going go back to the same pattern or maybe even run out of computers.. On the other hand, in the case of bullying, we would know who they were or the person with the computer will know.

As far as the IP masking software.I do not believe there is not a way to defeat these software and get the true IP address or simply make ip masking software illegal then only the criminals will have them. Then use your masking buster software.

The bottom line is, as long as the internet is Free to use without restrictions you are going to have bullying. Like Sex, there is a sure way to prevent diseases, non-wanted births and bullying. That my friend is abstinence or simply unplugging yourself. We are in the age where no one takes responsibility for anything. This too has to stop or the whole world is in trouble.

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

We are both thinking along the same lines here...

Bullying on the Internet will never be eradicated whilst their is widespread anonymity..

Yes, I think we have solved the problem of bullying and how to stop it. the problem of conviction of bullying will be the same as in ra** cases. It is very hard to get the woman to come forward because of the defiling actions of the defense lawyers.

Thus, while bullying could be dealt with, unless there is some legislation, some victims willing to step forward and the 'state-run' media (U.S.) brings to the problem to the forefront, Bullying will continue to flourish.

Appreciate the debate.

have a nice day :>
Bladerunner

 

[Brianwarnock]

Great, so can you summarise for me what needs to be done to stop cyber bullying. Will it be a criminal offence?

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

It was just an Idea. I use a program that gives me the IP address of users coming into my website. But your telling me a group of distinguished programmers assembled here cannot do that?

Simply ban the IP address. why would you have to have the identity of the person.. It does not matter. I am not going to loan my car to a bank robber. If people lose their IP address or the ability to have internet, they will be more careful of who uses their services. While my site is a home address, I still restrict what can be downloaded, or looked at it they are using my wifi.

FYI: George Sorros (Hungary) has donated (since 1994) 80 Million in an effort to legalize POT in the U.S. WHY?????? because POT people are liberal and will vote liberal everytime.

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

Most people on the internet have dynamic IP addresses. Every time I reset my internet connection I get a different IP address so by banning an IP address you would effectively ban random customers of the same ISP rather than banning the bully. That is why when we ban spammers we do not block the IP address

 

[Bladerunner]

Most people on the internet have dynamic IP addresses. Every time I reset my internet connection I get a different IP address so by banning an IP address you would effectively ban random customers of the same ISP rather than banning the bully. That is why when we ban spammers we do not block the IP address

Hi Rabbie and thanks for the info but it is just a little over my head. I guess my IP is not dynamic? I don't think it changes!? Then again maybe it does,,, will have to check.

Its hard to have been out of touch for so long and then try an play catch-up

Have a nice Day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Great, so can you summarise for me what needs to be done to stop cyber bullying. Will it be a criminal offence?

Brian

Hi Brian: Well I thought I did but after Rabbie spoke up, it is not so clear. Legislation, parameters defining bullying, getting victims to speak up, etc. are what will probably be the easy part. If there is no way, a person can be tied to a specific act on the internet, I fear all is lost since we obviously opened up Pandora's Box..

A criminal Offense? Criminal ? maybe it could be like a DUI (U.S.) where in most states the first time results in loss of money, training, and lost of license (computer privileges) for a period of time. Under a DUI if a loss of life or bodily/property damage was to have occurred, the sentence would be more and could become a criminal offense like 2nd degree manslaughter or something if the actions of the bully was proved to be the direct cause of the victims death.

Hope this helps.

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner'

 

[Brianwarnock]

You say that defining bullying is the easy part, I'm not sure, leaving aside physical assault, I think that one man's bullying is another's banter or the rough and tumble of life.
Col makes comments about America and some Americans get upset others just ignore him, it was the same when I first wore specs some 60+ years ago, I got the usual "4eyes" and other comments, as did others, it hurt some but I found that if you ignored it it soon stopped. So was it a form of bullying?
May be it is felt that when written the comment is more serious, I don't know.

I am glad that I am not growing up in today's world were every sentence is dissected to see if it contains a race or gender crime, I once called a female driver "a stupid woman" , no prizes for guessing what word she objected to.

Bullying is always bad, but should we put the world in a straitjacket to protect those who cannot cope with life.

Brian

 

[Bladerunner]

You say that defining bullying is the easy part, I'm not sure, leaving aside physical assault, I think that one man's bullying is another's banter or the rough and tumble of life.
Col makes comments about America and some Americans get upset others just ignore him, it was the same when I first wore specs some 60+ years ago, I got the usual "4eyes" and other comments, as did others, it hurt some but I found that if you ignored it it soon stopped. So was it a form of bullying?
May be it is felt that when written the comment is more serious, I don't know.

I am glad that I am not growing up in today's world were every sentence is dissected to see if it contains a race or gender crime, I once called a female driver "a stupid woman" , no prizes for guessing what word she objected to.

Bullying is always bad, but should we put the world in a straitjacket to protect those who cannot cope with life.

Brian

Good morning Brian: I simply was referring to the degree in which it would be possible to define bullying versus the actual catching someone bullying someone. (i.e. Rabbie's post).

Unfortunately, we already live in a world of Political correctness over here and it is getting bad. I think that 97%of the bullying comes from the left (liberal, Progressives, socialist (what ever you want to call them). Why. because if you do not believe as they do, they want to destroy you or bully you into their way of thinking.

And yes some sixty years ago, I remember too well the bullying by some kids (who had everything) against some kids because they had nothing. I can proudly say, these kids that had nothing were always my friend.

Have a good weekend :>)

Bladerunner

 

[scott-atkinson]

Most people on the internet have dynamic IP addresses. Every time I reset my internet connection I get a different IP address so by banning an IP address you would effectively ban random customers of the same ISP rather than banning the bully. That is why when we ban spammers we do not block the IP address

I always thought that an element of the IP address was unique to the computer that was accessing the internet, if it wasn't how would a remote connection be able to be established...

My son, whose laptop is registered to his mum's address was using it connected to my ISP and Norton were able to remotely connect to his Laptop simply from the IP address...

If the IP was dynamic, then surely remote connection would be impossible..

Wiki defines it as a unique device identifier..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address

 

[marot90]

Im curious: How waterproof is the whole thing with getting people to sign into social media with their real names/IDs and so on from a legal perspective? As in: Is it legally unproblematic to say "Your Account was used to do soemthing illegal, so it was you who did it"? Technically, the account could be hacked, and i could have been someone else. Would the hacked victim have to prove that he was hacked, or is there some kind of benefit of the doubt? I am sure this came up in some legal debatte or actual legal case at some point in the past.

 

[scott-atkinson]

Im curious: How waterproof is the whole thing with getting people to sign into social media with their real names/IDs and so on from a legal perspective? As in: Is it legally unproblematic to say "Your Account was used to do soemthing illegal, so it was you who did it"? Technically, the account could be hacked, and i could have been someone else. Would the hacked victim have to prove that he was hacked, or is there some kind of benefit of the doubt? I am sure this came up in some legal debatte or actual legal case at some point in the past.

There must be some kind of footprint left behind if your account has been hacked i'm sure this could be verified if there was a need to.

 

[marot90]

Let me rephrase that: What if i left my password lying around and someone used it to do something illegal with my account? Would i be responsible for what was done until i prove that it wasnt me, or would i be punished only for being careless with the security of my account, or am i responsible for what was done by the guy via my account?

So: Is the system you proposed waterproof enough to legally say "it was done with your account, so it was you, until it is proofen taht it wasnt you" or is it "it was your account, and that indicates that it was you who did it, but we have to proof it?

 

[scott-atkinson]

Let me rephrase that: What if i left my password lying around and someone used it to do something illegal with my account? Would i be responsible for what was done until i prove that it wasnt me, or would i be punished only for being careless with the security of my account, or am i responsible for what was done by the guy via my account?

So: Is the system you proposed waterproof enough to legally say "it was done with your account, so it was you, until it is proofen taht it wasnt you" or is it "it was your account, and that indicates that it was you who did it, but we have to proof it?

Let me counter your questions;

Why would you allow somebody who had the intention of using your computer to perform an illegal action access to your computer?

My proposal is the use of the IP identifier, so I can only surmise, that you either allowed them to use your PC, or they had stolen your PC and your passwords, if the former then yes you would be just as guilty as the person who committed the crime, and if the latter, then you would obviously have reported the crime to the correct authorities and therefore are absence of any blame.

If you had simply been careless and left your password lying about and somebody accessed your account via another computer, then the answer is of course no liability to you, and all you need to do is change your password, and not be so careless in the future..

 

[Vassago]

With Freedom comes responsibilities and consequences as well but Freedom of Speech is the number one item in the bill of rights (US only). You are right, you have a responsibility not to shout Fire in a movie Theater without there being a fire. One, it is against the law and two it could and usually does cause someone to suffer bodily harm.

"You can't tell people you are a cop and search their person if you aren't". There is a law preventing the impersonation of an law officer.

Yes, they are against the law. So what? You're still dealing with the consequences. I didn't even mention laws that circumvent speech, but that's a good point too. Do we really have freedom of speech if we have laws that prevent it?

"You can't verbally harrass someone. " ?????? In other words, I cannot tell someone what I think about them. Guess that would have to be put in the civil liabilities section for 'Harassment/Hate Crimes'. What's next, A crime because of what I am thinking? Of course my definition of 'verbal harassment' is evidently different from yours.

They are always up to interpretation. If you are constantly calling someone's phone and pranking them, that can be harrassment, or even stalking.

"You can't publicly or even privately bash a company you work for and expect to not be fired if they get wind of what you did."

Yes you can and it is not against the LAW although there are some people who think it should be. Having expectations of NOT being fired because of the bashing.... Well, 'Live and Learn" Personally, if I ever got to a point where I had to bash a company I worked for, I would already be 'in the GONE mode'

Who said it was against the law? I said nothing about legal ramifications, although you could potentially find yourself in a civil suit for slander. I was solely speaking on consequences of your freedoms and what you choose to do with it.