Easter Island (1 Viewer)

[jsanders]

Like the inhabitants of that island. The human race is facing a new dawn.

History is replete with change, and on some occasion extinction. We are the first generation with the knowledge to foresee this end, and yet with all our knowledge and technology do we have the wisdom, courage, and discipline to change the course.

Actually I don’t believe we do, maybe it is ordained that we would end here, maybe we will have a chance to change.

As the human race has continued to thrive in this last century, more and more are moving to materialism, and all of the associated cost. Since WWII the industrial age has grown to encompass more than 2 billion additional people, soon the Chinese will be living the lives of their Western counterparts. When this happens the demand for natural resources will either cause huge shortages, pollution, and hardship for the most vulnerable members of the race, or a global conflict; or both.

So what can we do to stem the tide.

When faced with gang green the traditional remedy has been to cut off the limb before the patient dies. Are such drastic measures necessary now, or will we work together to find ways to sustain economies (so essential for us) while preserving life or will we wait until we need an amputation?

 

[ColinEssex]

When this happens the demand for natural resources will either cause huge shortages, pollution, and hardship for the most vulnerable members of the race, or a global conflict; or both.

So what can we do to stem the tide.

As you live in the country (questionably) deemed the worlds worst polluter.

You could vote in a President who doesn't wave 2 fingers at the Kyoto agreement, who also refuses to legislate big polluting companies to cut emissions because their "backhanders" would stop.

You could vote in one who has at least a mild interest in saving the planet instead of destroying it.

You could all stop running round in gas guzzlers. You could have a huge tax levied on petrol (like we have) to force this.

None of the above will happen because of money.

You can't blame the Chinese for wanting what we have had in the "west" - remember the joy of getting your first car?

The Chinese and India are a little late - but rapidly climbing the world wealth chart. When "the west" did what they are doing now, we all knew nothing of pollution etc.

The Chinese / India are bound to say "sod off" we're doing what you've done for decades - don't preach to us. And if the Americans or "the west" try to dictate to the Chinese then god [whatever it may be] help us

Col

 

[msp]

I think things will get very interesting soon, as the resources become scare. Africa that is the source, but is very poor will have diffrent countries competing for its resources (but don't let the african people benifit). damm if only we still had our empire we would be sorted...,

If you want to make some money buy a couple of tonnes of copper..

 

[Rich]

If you want to make some money buy a couple of tonnes of copper..

I took a load to the scrap yard just a few weeks ago, it wasn't worth the bother

 

[jsanders]

As you live in the country (questionably) deemed the worlds worst polluter.

You could vote in a President who doesn't wave 2 fingers at the Kyoto agreement, who also refuses to legislate big polluting companies to cut emissions because their "backhanders" would stop.

You could vote in one who has at least a mild interest in saving the planet instead of destroying it.

You could all stop running round in gas guzzlers. You could have a huge tax levied on petrol (like we have) to force this.

None of the above will happen because of money.

You can't blame the Chinese for wanting what we have had in the "west" - remember the joy of getting your first car?

The Chinese and India are a little late - but rapidly climbing the world wealth chart. When "the west" did what they are doing now, we all knew nothing of pollution etc.

The Chinese / India are bound to say "sod off" we're doing what you've done for decades - don't preach to us. And if the Americans or "the west" try to dictate to the Chinese then god [whatever it may be] help us

Col

I don’t disagree with you at all. I am certainly not blaming them for wanting to join the consumer crowd. And don’t think that I don’t believe in capitalism either. There’s much more to materialism than just owning a bunch of stuff, it also provides a means and a reason to seek out education.

As far as the pollution is concerned, I guess in ways Ben Laden won many more victories over the US than just killing some of our people. The fear factor just consumed so many people that they were willing to ignore all of the damage the Bush administration was doing to the environment.

Now these aren’t just suppositions, there is real evidence that the Bush administration changed reports to the American People, put lawyers in charge of the dissemination of science, and put illegal gag orders on career government scientist.

And lastly the current administration has taught its “Ditto Head” followers that the proper argument, to any attack on lack of interest by this administration, is to bring up global warming. Because as you know there is a strong possibility that its is natural and therefore the Repubs can’t be blamed for it.

What they aren’t taught or they choose to ignore is that the high levels of mercury disulfate currently in US Fresh water is directly related to the Bush administration’s policies.

And before FOFA speaks up in their defense, let me tell you, installing the legally mandated equipment would have created jobs, not increased profit. Don’t ever let the republicans snow you with job creation. They could care less if any economically lower class person ever had a job; well they want them to have a job, it just needs to pay slave wages.

By the way I’m not a liberal, I could care less if same sex marriage passes or not, my only thoughts about abortion are to the extent that I care about how they are affecting who we elect, and I don’t believe in government handouts. So before any of you decide to call me a liberal, take this into consideration.

If I’m wrong about the environment, than at worse we create a few million jobs cleaning it up.

If I’m right…


PS: more on the Chinese element later.

 

[msp]

I took a load to the scrap yard just a few weeks ago, it wasn't worth the bother

and keep it for 10 years...

 

[ColinEssex]

Jen - I'm glad you didn't view my post as an anti-American rant. It wasn't meant to be. We too have issues over pollution, but not quite as difficult as in the US.

I was going to refer to the tampering of environment reports by GWB - it was exposed on a BBC documentary a couple of months ago. I was saving it up for later

I hope that the next US president will do something constructive even if its upsetting big business.

Going back to cars - we have SUV's (4 x 4's we say) but, these are being seen increasingly as non PC, a bit like drinking and driving. There are some 4 x 4 owners who have had their cars deliberately damaged (or "keyed" as we call it), spat at, and had name calling etc
A recent programme on it showed several people who had gone back to normal cars because of the 4 x 4 aggro they got. Also showed how sales are dropping. Hopefully owning one will be totally despised in due time.
Personally, I can't see the need for a 4 x 4 when the only off-road work is Tesco's car park. If they are truly needed (like farmers etc) then its ok.
Dropping a little brat off at school in a 4 x 4 is disgusting.

You see, Me and Rich and Ken and others do our bit by riding motorbikes, but our good is wiped out by the un-necessary Chelsea tractor brigade (4 x 4 owners)

Col

 

[jsanders]

I was going to refer to the tampering of environment reports by GWB - it was exposed on a BBC documentary a couple of months ago. I was saving it up for later


Col

This is just a side bar, referring to your point about the BBC, and relating it to you guys claming we have censored news.

NPR reported on the scandal with the power companies 2 or 3 years ago and 60 minutes reported on the cover up of government funded science being obscured, last year sometime.

 

[Mile-O]

Another little thing, about resources. There's loads of coal below Centralia, Pennsylvania which has been idly burning for the last forty years and, it's estimated, has enough fuel to keep it burning for 250 years. There are no plans to extinguish this fire. Surely that must be doing the old global warming no favours.

EDIT: Smithsonian Article. Such fires are burning all over the world. Not just America.

 

[jsanders]

I hope that the next US president will do something constructive even if its upsetting big business.

If they are truly needed (like farmers etc) then its ok.
Dropping a little brat off at school in a 4 x 4 is disgusting.



Col

Sorry for paraphrasing your post Col, but I don’t believe we will need much more than to take away some of the incredibly biased tax “reforms” from the previous congress to see a diminishing of support for American SUVs.

The funny thing is, that in ways, the current problems in Detroit stem from the car makers lobbying Washington to exclude SUV from being classified as cars. For a while they were able to sell them without all of the pollution and mileage regulations.

So the Japanese, Korean, and European SUV makers (in order to penetrate the lucrative American SUV market) started building more efficient models.

As soon as we had that gas spike earlier this year, Americans abandoned the big SUVs in droves.

Deservingly leaving Detroit holding the bag.

 

[ColinEssex]

This is just a side bar, referring to your point about the BBC, and relating it to you guys claming we have censored news.

NPR reported on the scandal with the power companies 2 or 3 years ago and 60 minutes reported on the cover up of government funded science being obscured, last year sometime.

Good for you - and what has come out of this? sweet FA. Fat lot of good it did exposing it in the USA eh?


Col

 

[ColinEssex]

There's loads of coal below Centralia, Pennsylvania which has been idly burning for the last forty years

is that near New Orleans? the sea could have put the fire out

Col

 

[jsanders]

Good for you - and what has come out of this? sweet FA. Fat lot of good it did exposing it in the USA eh?


Col

As I stated earlier the administration seriously capitalized on fear. But as you can readily surmise from our latest elections that fear factor has subsided.

Republicans under Karl Rove’s leadership; have utilized fear and abortion to completely dominate American politics for the last 6 years. Finely the masses have come around to my way of thinking.

 

[jsanders]

is that near New Orleans? the sea could have put the fire out

Col

No Col, Its 1400 miles away.

 

[Brianwarnock]

You see, Me and Rich and Ken and others do our bit by riding motorbikes, but our good is wiped out by the un-necessary Chelsea tractor brigade (4 x 4 owners)

Col

I'll believe that's the reason you do it when you are on 50cc mopeds

brian

 

[ColinEssex]

50cc ones are for teenagers who can't be arsed to take a proper test.

Ken Rich and I ride somewhat different ones - well Rich and I do, Ken rides a Hardly Driveable tractor thingy

Col

 

[Bodisathva]

speaking of which, it was actually warm enough to bring the bike to work today

 

[Brianwarnock]

But Col
surely if you justify riding big bikes by saying small ones are for kids then the drivers of big cars can adopt a similar attitude, and given the distances in the states I would go along with them, the only time I wished I had my little hatch was on the PCH when its better handling would have been more fun.
I've driven Dodge Intrepid and Neon (amongst others) over there and I know which one i preffered

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

speaking of which, it was actually warm enough to bring the bike to work today

It was here too. It was 1.2c or about 34F

Col

 

[Bodisathva]

It was here too. It was 1.2c or about 34F

Col

How far are you commuting and at what speeds???