Far fetched fantasy story

[Frothingslosh]

Also, I never considered you part of what I call the Trumpstaffel, just deluded and a hypocrite. You aren't running around cheering 45's racism, his sabotage of our international relationships, his assault on the First Amendment, his complete incoherence, and his total inability to tell even a single truth. Those - the True Believers - are the people I refer to with that term.

You've just deluded yourself that somehow Clinton would have done worse.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Well, I've been called deluded and hypocritical before.

Frothy, we could argue forever and I respect you too much to stoop to name-calling. I understand that you think HRC was better than DJT. I do not agree with that evaluation. I know for an absolute fact that DJT has been a smarmy businessman in the past. He is crude, arrogant, loud-mouthed, and far from what I would consider as good presidential material. I was not enamored with his rhetoric. I didn't like some of his talking points. But then I had to look at HRC.

With my unusually sensitive computer security background and with a memory of the scandals that have dogged the Clintons from the time they came out of Arkansas, I can't trust her to run a country. Back in the days of the "Whitewater" incident, there was evidence of wrong-doing and investigations looked into at least ten bodies of people who got themselves killed. Of course nobody could tie the deaths to the Clintons but some of those deaths are still unsolved cold cases. If you look, you can still find the videos on the net.

Stuff is coming out of the embassy incident that makes it clear she knew something was wrong days before it happened but did nothing about it. In essence, she ALLOWED a U.S. Embassy to be violated and people DIED because of her inaction.

She violated not less than three major federal laws in the way she handled State Department e-mails with freakin' Top Secret/Compartmented markings that she was too STUPID (or perverse, which would be worse) to understand or follow.

When she lost the election, the foreign-supported Clinton Foundation folded because with her government influence suddenly decimated, nobody could buy their way into getting favorable treatment from the USA. So no, she wasn't cozying up to Russia. She was selling HER attention to whoever would pay... (excuse me, donate to the Clinton Foundation.)

When it comes to shady deals, DJT has his share, but HRC was the acknowledged queen of that particular topic.

Which is why when it came time to vote, I had to hold my nose and use anti-nausea drugs to be able to click that lever for DJT. Please trust me when I say this, frothy. There was absolutely no delusion on my part and I don't think I was being a hypocrite either. There was NO good choice to be made and it took a lot of soul-searching as to deciding the person I was going to vote AGAINST.

It may not make you feel any better about me, but then again, it is our differences that make us special. You saw it like I did, but different factors were more important to you than to me, reflective of our different life experiences. I accept that you disagree with me, Frothy. I would just hope that you don't hate me for that disagreement.

 

[sneuberg]

She violated not less than three major federal laws in the way she handled State Department e-mails with freakin' Top Secret/Compartmented markings that she was too STUPID (or perverse, which would be worse) to understand or follow.

I don't recall hearing that. If she compromised TS/SCI information that really would be serious. Can you give us a a source for this claim?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

It was on-line and was reported by CBS news at the time. I believe a total of 22 TS/SCI documents were either mislabeled or the labels were ignored. (See also the links below for various viewpoints on the topic.)

Specifically, using a private e-mail server to perform State Department business, the violations were (a) the server should have immediately been confiscated and certified for use in classified transmissions, which implies (b) it should NOT have had Internet exposure, and (c) there are backup and other preservation requirements as part of the Federal Records Act regarding the concept of a "system of records." (d) Deletion of some 30,000 items from that server violates FRA and also may have violated the Freedom of Information Act, which requires government to be ABLE to respond to an FOIA request, redacted or not.

As to sources:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31806907

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/hillary-clinton-email-controversy-explained-2016/

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/we-...e-legal-expert-say-clinton-committed-a-crime/

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8876/new-fbi-documents-show-hillary-was-obviously-ben-shapiro

The last of the references above includes comments on specific numbers of classified documents on her personal server.

I will acknowledge that some folks at high levels do not see her actions as criminal. All I can say is that if I tried to do U.S. Navy business on a personal e-mail account while acting as a contractor, I would have been called down for it. In fact, in our yearly refresher training, we were constantly reminded that all business HAD to be performed through our Navy e-mail accounts. Further, we were advised that web-mail sites were all being placed on a black-list at our firewalls. And this was years before the HRC e-mail scandal broke.

 

[NauticalGent]

Thanks Col, nothing like having the sins from your past coming back to bite you in your ample arse!

That wasn't me BTW; those pesky Russians hacked my AWF account. And the Cold War rages on...

 

[NauticalGent]

Frothy, for what it is worth, I am not a member of the Trumpstaffel, though I get the parallel. If I had a viable third party candidate, I would absolutely not have voted for the Donald. But you know what choices were available and to my way of thinking, HRC was the worst choice. DJT was 2nd worst. There was no best choice.

This is a topic that causes me to disable my FB account every 4 years. There ARE plenty of viable candidates. Folks, the system is rigged, the table is tilted. We have been sold down the river and too much time is spent on banter like what Doc and Froth are doing instead of fixing the real problem.

But please carry-on SportsFans, if anything it makes this forum interesting!

 

[Frothingslosh]

Hate, no.

Pissed, yes. And more at every educated person who chose to vote for Trump despite the fact that he was obviously going to do irrepairable harm to the country (as he is now doing) than at any one specific person.

 

[sneuberg]

@ Doc,

Thanks for the references on this and while they do say "deemed to be Top Secret" I don't see anything about them being SCI material. Normally SCI material is not handled outside of a SCIF so I can't see she how she could have done that with her emails.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I understand, Steve, but I remember seeing the reference on a news broadcast. Since I don't recall the actual date, that makes it harder to find in a search.

Here is the problem: HRC, as Secretary of State, COULD have been declared to be a Classification Authority (CA) for the State Department, which would then explicitly give her the right to alter the classification of documents under her purview. But she didn't go through the formalities. This is perhaps one reason why folks are split over whether she committed a crime or not. But in the absence of being a properly declared CA, she violated the rules for storage and handling of marked documents. One of the references included excerpts showing that she DID NOT UNDERSTAND the markings. To my way of thinking, that meant that despite her position, she should NEVER have been allowed to touch them until she took - and PASSED - the training that is available on-line to ANY person in government positions. Takes about 45 minutes to an hour.

Saying "normally not handled outside of a SCIF" made no difference to her. The TS (non-compartmented) documents aren't normally handled outside of a SCIF either. In essence, she played loose and sloppy with classified documents, which means that she didn't take her position seriously. Otherwise she would have taken the training required of ANYONE who must handle classified documents.

It is the implications of that attitude that tipped me away from her. When I faced the problem during the Louisiana Duke/Edwards election, I voted for the Democrat because I knew that Duke was the wrong answer. This time, I knew that HRC was the wrong answer. That's all I can say about it.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Frothy, I know you are unhappy. I'm not smiling either. But I'm glad to know you don't totally hate me forever (shades of Gollum and Bilbo Baggins....)

 

[ColinEssex]

A joke on TV yesterday.

Apparently the Canadians are getting fed up with Americans emigrating from the USA to Canada, they are going to build a wall to stop them. But not a high wall as most Americans are so obese they can't get over anything higher than 3 feet high.

Col

 

[NauticalGent]

A joke on TV yesterday.

Apparently the Canadians are getting fed up with Americans emigrating from the USA to Canada, they are going to build a wall to stop them. But not a high wall as most Americans are so obese they can't get over anything higher than 3 feet high.

Col

Ouch......

 

[Frothingslosh]

However, those same people can just go all Kool-Aid Man on the wall....

 

[sneuberg]

A joke on TV yesterday.

Apparently the Canadians are getting fed up with Americans emigrating from the USA to Canada, they are going to build a wall to stop them. But not a high wall as most Americans are so obese they can't get over anything higher than 3 feet high.

Col

According to this the overall prevalance of obesity is:

US: 33.7
Canada: 28.0
UK: 28.1

Not an overwhelming difference in my book.

 

[Frothingslosh]

According to this the overall prevalance of obesity is:

US: 33.7
Canada: 28.0
UK: 28.1

Not an overwhelming difference in my book.

Are you sure that was the link you meant?

And here are the government's figures:

More than two-thirds (68.8 percent) of adults are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than one-third (35.7 percent) of adults are considered to be obese.
More than 1 in 20 (6.3 percent) have extreme obesity.
Almost 3 in 4 men (74 percent) are considered to be overweight or obese.
The prevalence of obesity is similar for both men and women (about 36 percent).
About 8 percent of women are considered to have extreme obesity.

And the Canadian numbers:

In 2014, 20.2% of Canadians aged 18 and older, roughly 5.3 million adults, reported height and weight that classified them as obese. The rate of obesity among men increased to 21.8% in 2014 from 20.1% in 2013, and is the highest obesity rate for men reported since 2003 (in 2003, 16.0% of males were obese). Among women, the rate of obesity in 2014 (18.7%) was an increase over 2013 and also up significantly from 2003 when it was 14.5%.

Unfortunately, the UK doesn't have any direct numbers that I could find in my five-minute search, but here's a government overview of them and here is a report from The Guardian.

67% of men and 57% of women in the UK are overweight or obese according to the study which uses a Body Mass Index (BMI) of over 25 to define 'overweight' and a BMI of 30 or more to define 'obese'.

 

[sneuberg]

That link was suppose to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Body_Mass_Index_(BMI))

It's interesting that the Canadian stats are so different but I don't think I care that much to find out why. But another thing to consider is that the people that would be leaving probably are leaner than average if presidential preference plays a role.

 

[AccessBlaster]

A joke on TV yesterday.

Apparently the Canadians are getting fed up with Americans emigrating from the USA to Canada, they are going to build a wall to stop them. But not a high wall as most Americans are so obese they can't get over anything higher than 3 feet high.

Col

If our southern wall ever gets finished, maybe Americans will get off their fat asses and mow their own lawns cook their own food and look after their own kids. In other words the wall should be great for our waist line.

 

[Frothingslosh]

If our southern wall ever gets finished, maybe Americans will get off their fat asses and mow their own lawns cook their own food and look after their own kids. In other words the wall should be great for our waist line.

Let's not forget harvest our own crops and construct our own buildings.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Let's not forget harvest our own crops and construct our own buildings.

Americans used to be known for "pulling them self's up by their boot straps". Now we have a symbiotic relationship to do that for us.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Americans used to be known for "pulling them self's up by their boot straps". Now we have a symbiotic relationship to do that for us.

Yeah, that reputation was always pretty much self-bestowed. We have a long, long history of exploiting immigrants. Whether they were Irish fleeing the Potato Famine or Chinese looking for a better life, we have always used immigrants to perform the 'worst' jobs America has, usually for wages almost no citizen would be willing to accept. We're a chip off the old English block in that regard.

And then there was chattel slavery, which was one of, if not THE most brutal implementation(s) of slavery that the world has ever seen.

And it has only grown worse since the dawn of the 20th century. With the implementation of minimum wage, many immigrants - especially migrant workers - quite literally get paid less than any citizen would be willing to take, sometimes not even coming CLOSE to the minimum wage.

And the creation of 'legal' immigration in 1875 with the Page Act of 1875, followed by the Immigration Act of 1891 has simply made things worse. Now, so-called 'illegals' are not only exploited mercilessly, but they don't dare fight for their rights, because if they do, they just get deported back to whatever they (or their parents) fled. Hell, we're seeing that all over again today; just look at that Dreamer - Daniela Vargas - who publicly criticized the Muslim Ban last week while in the process of renewing her DACA exemption and wound up deported without even a hearing.

I think most of us know that I'm something of a patriot, but that doesn't make me blind to America's faults. I just keep in mind an old quote that I swear no conservative seems to have heard the second half to.

The first half we all know: "My country, right or wrong."

The half so few seem to remember is this: "If right, to be kept right. If wrong, to be made right."