Genesis Account v. Macroevolution Myth (1 Viewer)

Frothingslosh

Premier Pale Stale Ale
Local time
Today, 07:51
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
3,260
Perhaps Noah provided them a eucalyptus-leaf canoe and taught them to row!
 

Brianwarnock

Retired
Local time
Today, 12:51
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
12,701
They would have to row pretty quick to make sure that they got there before they finished eating said canoe.

Brian
 

Brianwarnock

Retired
Local time
Today, 12:51
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
12,701
What puzzles me is that as incest is forbidden how did the human race get past two generations, twice! Or am I missing something.

Brian
 

AnthonyGerrard

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 12:51
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
1,069
What puzzles me is that as incest is forbidden how did the human race get past two generations, twice! Or am I missing something.

Brian
I really doubt you are missing anything!! Really no - its disgusting - don't even think about it!
 

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
That was taken from post 8--after I quoted Ernst Mayr at post 3, where he stated the following:
"[FONT=&quot]What one actually found was nothing but discontinuities: All species are separated from each other by bridgeless gaps; intermediates between species are not observed . . . The problem was even more serious at the level of the higher categories." (Mayr, E., Animal Species and Evolution, 1982, p. 524.)[/FONT]"​
This same quote is repeated across thousands of anti-Evolution posts online. Each time it is parroted by people who have not even bothered to read the passage in the original context.

In the subsequent paragraph Mayr goes on to explain that fossilisation itself is a very rare event, while the relatively few that formed must survive many millions of years of tectonic activity and be brought to a location where they can be found.
Galaxiom:

It matters not what Mayr said in subsequent paragraphs. By his own admission, the gaps between species are "bridgeless," indicating there is no connection between one species from another. The fact that he made the same admission some 20 years apart (from 1982 to 2001) speaks for itself.

"Given the fact of evolution, one would expect the fossils to document a gradual steady change from ancestral forms to the descendants. But this is not what the paleontologist finds. Instead, he or she finds gaps in just about every phyletic series." (Ernst Mayr-Professor Emeritus, Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard University, What Evolution Is, 2001, p.14)

Mayr was a rabid pro-evolutionist who, while admitting the fossils evidence presents nothing but bridgeless gaps, was not willing to give up his love affair with science fiction. And Mayr was not the only pro-evolution scientist who was forced to admit that the fossils record does not support evolution dogma. [FONT=&quot]Do[FONT=&quot]zens of other pro-evolution paleontologist said the same thing. Among the do[FONT=&quot]zens were [/FONT][/FONT]Stephen Gould [/FONT] and [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Niles [/FONT]Eldridge[FONT=&quot]. [FONT=&quot]Notice what they admitted to below[/FONT][/FONT].
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are characteristically abrupt. Gradualists usually extract themselves from this dilemma by invoking the extreme imperfection of the fossil record." (Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 189.)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
"He [Darwin] prophesied that future generations of paleontologists would fill in these gaps by diligent search....It has become abundantly clear that the fossil record will not confirm this part of Darwin's predictions. Nor is the problem a miserably poor record. The fossil record simply shows that this prediction was wrong." (Eldridge, Niles, The Myths of Human Evolution, 1984, pp.45-46.)
[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]So what did Gould and Eldridge do? They joined forces and decided to make things up as they went. The two of them got together and dreamed up "Punctuated Equilibrium" in [/FONT]
which there would be no need for transitional fossils showing how one creature evolved into something else.

In the Punctuated Equilibrium scenario, according to Gould and Eldridge, species simply jumped from, for example, Creature A to Creature D, with no need for transitional fossils of Creature B and Creature C.
[FONT=&quot]Gould and Eldridge did not[/FONT] present one shred of scientific evidence to support this UPDATED macroevolution theory, mind you. It was just them telling the rest of us about their religious belief. Their position was: "Believe it, because we said that's how it happened; no scientific evidence required."


Then again, we are discussing science fiction; are we not?


Alter2Ego



[FONT=&quot]________________
[/FONT]"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 
Last edited:

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
However the fossil record does show a radiation of species over time from common ancestors. This record is also backed by genetic evidence.
Galaxiom:

Exactly when do you intend to explain to the rest of us how evolution's common ancestor came to life without Jehovah? Charles Darwin proposed abiogenesis (life coming to life by itself from non-life). But if I were you, I would not waste time proposing that. Abiogenesis theory was debunked in 1859 by Louis Pasteur, as well as by other scientists since then.



Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
In other words, you are hardly in a position to point fingers at the Judeo-Christian Bible--for which there is evidence of divine inspiration--when you are stuck with science fiction aka evolution myth that the fossils record says never happened.


Even if the fossil record lacks enough examples to satisfy your scepticism that absence does not prove Evolution "never happened".

You are quite welcome to live in your fantasy. However you will find that expressing your delusions here will be met with intellect and you will invariably find yourself looking like a fool.
Galaxiom:

The words "even if" are quite revealing. Those are the words people use when they are determined to not use reason. Those words speak for blind faith--belief in something for which there is no evidence. Yet, according to you, I am the one living in fantasy.


Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 

Galaxiom

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
11,931
In the Punctuated Equilibrium scenario, according to Gould and Eldridge, species simply jumped from, for example, Creature A to Creature D, with no need for transitional fossils of Creature B and Creature C.


You really should make some effort to understand that which you attempt to criticise. Punctuated Equilibrium does not claim that species jumped directly from one to another.

It refers to the notion that speciation happens over a relatively short time between long periods with little change. The rapid changes happen when environmental conditions suddenly change.

The paucity of the fossil record compared with the population of organisms remains the main reason why we don't have fossils of closely related intermediate forms. Punctuated Equilibrium simply increases that difficulty because there are even fewer opportunities for fossilisation of the intermediate forms.

The fossil records does still show a progression of diversification between species due to relatively small changes, just not the finest level of differentiation.

They presented not one shred of scientific evidence to support this, mind you.

You should also make some effort to understand the scientific method.

Punctuated Equilibrium is a hypothesis presented to further explain the absence of fossils of all intermediate types. Anyone in science is welcome to present an alternative hypothesis. Competing hypotheses are judged on how well they fit the evidence and how well they predict any evidence that may be found in the future.

It was just them telling the rest of us about their religious belief. Their position was: "Believe it, because we said that's how it happened."


That is the premise for your religious doctrine. Your "evidence" is the claim that the Bible was written with divine inspiration but you have not a single shred of evidence to support that claim.

Moreover your claim is inconsistent with observed facts. In science that means your divine inspiration hypothesis is disproved.

I note you made no attempt to address my comments about the lack of evidence for your "divine" record.
 

Galaxiom

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
11,931
Galaxiom:

The words "even if" are quite revealing. Those are the words people use when they are determined to not use reason. Those words speak for blind faith--belief in something for which there is no evidence. Yet, according to you, I am the one living in fantasy.
Rubbish.

And I note that you continue to ignore the critique of your "divine inspiration" hypothesis.
 

Galaxiom

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
11,931
Exactly when do you intend to explain to the rest of us how evolution's common ancestor came to life without Jehovah?
And when do you propose to explain where your Jehovah came from? Your god is, by the characterisation of your doctrine, the most complex thing in the Universe. Yet you expect us to believe it spontaneously generated without a maker.

Abiogenesis theory was debunked in 1859 by Louis Pasteur, as well as by other scientists since then.
Pasteur fond that, under the conditions he used, over the time scale he observed that life did not spontaneously occur. This does not mean that abiogenesis per se is disproven.

If you were truly interested in discovering the state of the science you would know that serpentinization of olivine in alkaline hydrothermal vents ("white smokers") involves an abiotic reaction that is identical to the most fundamental metabolic reaction in absolutely every organism on this planet. This process also forms cell-sized bubbles in the resulting mineral complex.

The gap between minerals and life is no where near as well defined as you assume.
 

ConnorGiles

Strange Traveller
Local time
Today, 12:51
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,068
Where has AnthonyGerrard's Post gone to me? I can't quote it now. :(
 

AnthonyGerrard

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 12:51
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
1,069
WOW, If we all did that the Watercooler would be empty. :D

Brian
:) Indeed. I could save myself and everyone else more often!

It lacked the nuance I was hoping for! Then I realised I couldn't be bothered arguing nuance on this subject over the internet with a stranger anyway.
 

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]
In the Punctuated Equilibrium scenario, according to Gould and Eldridge, species simply jumped from, for example, Creature A to Creature D, with no need for transitional fossils of Creature B and Creature C. [FONT=&quot]Gould and Eldridge did not[/FONT] present one shred of scientific evidence to support this UPDATED macroevolution theory, mind you. It was just them telling the rest of us about their religious belief. Their position was: "Believe it, because we said that's how it happened; no scientific evidence required."


You really should make some effort to understand that which you attempt to criticise. Punctuated Equilibrium does not claim that species jumped directly from one to another.

It refers to the notion that speciation happens over a relatively short time between long periods with little change. The rapid changes happen when environmental conditions suddenly change.

The paucity of the fossil record compared with the population of organisms remains the main reason why we don't have fossils of closely related intermediate forms. Punctuated Equilibrium simply increases that difficulty because there are even fewer opportunities for fossilisation of the intermediate forms.

The fossil records does still show a progression of diversification between species due to relatively small changes, just not the finest level of differentiation.
Galaxiom:

You are confirming what I stated, that Punctuated Equilibrium aka science fiction removes the need for transitional fossils--while you are telling me that I need to "understand" what I am criticizing.

By your own admission (at the portions of your post that I quoted in light blue), the creatures change rapidly and there are "fewer opportunities for fossilization." In other words, creatures jump from one creature to the next, without the need to show how it happened.



Alter2Ego


[FONT=&quot]________________
[/FONT]"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
You should also make some effort to understand the scientific method.

Punctuated Equilibrium is a hypothesis presented to further explain the absence of fossils of all intermediate types. Anyone in science is welcome to present an alternative hypothesis. Competing hypotheses are judged on how well they fit the evidence and how well they predict any evidence that may be found in the future.
Galaxiom:

I bet you wrote that with a straight face.

How in the world does anyone "predict evidence that may be found in the future" and refer to that as "the scientific method"?

The scientific method is based upon evidence that has already been discovered. It is not based on the prediction of evidence.


[SIZE=+1]Limitations of the Scientific Method[/SIZE]
The scientific method is limited to those phenomena which can be observed or measured. For example, what existed prior to the Big Bang and the known universe is outside of the realm of science to investigate.
http://www.oakton.edu/user/4/billtong/eas100/scientificmethod.htm
You will find the above at the last paragraph of the source when you click the weblink.

So you telling me: "
Punctuated Equilibrium is a hypothesis presented to further explain the absence of fossils " simply confirms what I already stated: that Gould and Eldridge were making things up as they went and that they INVENTED Punctuated Equilibrium after they realized the fossils record kept telling them there are no transitional fossils showing how one creature evolved into something entirely different. As a reminder, below is what they both admitted when they observed the fossils record.
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are characteristically abrupt. Gradualists usually extract themselves from this dilemma by invoking the extreme imperfection of the fossil record." (Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 189.)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
"He [Darwin] prophesied that future generations of paleontologists would fill in these gaps by diligent search....It has become abundantly clear that the fossil record will not confirm this part of Darwin's predictions. Nor is the problem a miserably poor record. The fossil record simply shows that this prediction was wrong." (Eldridge, Niles, The Myths of Human Evolution, 1984, pp.45-46.)
[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]

So Galaxiom, exactly what point are you attempting to make? That I am right about the fact that Gould and Eldridge resorted to science fiction when they could not face the reality that the fossils record is filled with nothing but gaps, and so they decided to make things up as they went? If that was your aim, at that you have succeeded.


Alter2Ego



[FONT=&quot]________________
[/FONT]"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 

Galaxiom

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
11,931
You are confirming what I stated, that Punctuated Equilibrium aka science fiction removes the need for transitional fossils--while you are telling me that I need to "understand" what I am criticizing.
What exactly is your point here? I elucidated how Punctuated Equilibrium combined with the fact that a vanishingly small number of organisms are fossilised explains why we don't see a complete record continuous variation between species in the fossil record.

By your own admission (at the portions of your post that I quoted in light blue), the creatures change rapidly and there are "fewer opportunities for fossilization." In other words, creatures jump from one creature to the next, without the need to show how it happened.
No it doesn't show that creatures "jump" from one form to another. It show that we have an incomplete fossil record. A "rapid" change would sill involve many thousands of generations even though this would be a blink of an eye in geological scales.
 

Galaxiom

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
11,931
How in the world does anyone "predict evidence that may be found in the future" and refer to that as "the scientific method"?

The scientific method is based upon evidence that has already been discovered. It is not based on the prediction of evidence.
You definitely don't understand the scientific method.

Observations are made. A hypothesis explaining the fundamental principles underlying those observations is constructed and tested against all known facts. Then the principles are used to predict what aught to be the case in observations not yet made.

When the predicted observations are confirmed as true by actual observations it adds weight to to the case that the hypothesis correctly describes the fundamental principles involved, eventually elevating the hypothesis to a theory.

Evolution correctly predicted that we would find a series of life forms in the fossil record. Despite the record not showing a fine grained series of changes it certainly does show a series of intermediate forms.

So Galaxiom, exactly what point are you attempting to make? That I am right about the fact that Gould and Eldridge resorted to science fiction when they could not face the reality that the fossils record is filled with nothing but gaps, and so they decided to make things up as they went?
They prposed a hypothesis to explain what is observed. It is also incorrect to say that they found "nothing but gaps". There are many intermediate forms showing a series of changes between groups of organisms.

If that was your aim, at that you have succeeded.
You would need to do more than simply repeat your assertions to get anywhere in this debate. You have added nothing to your argument in this session.

BTW. When are you going to address the fact that everything in the creation myth is completely made up without a shred of evidence to back it? As I pointed out, the evidence refutes the Bible.
 

Alter2Ego

Registered User.
Local time
Today, 04:51
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
22
What exactly is your point here? I elucidated how Punctuated Equilibrium combined with the fact that a vanishingly small number of organisms are fossilised explains why we don't see a complete record continuous variation between species in the fossil record.
Galaxiom:

By your own admission, we do not see a complete record in the fossils. So at this point, you are telling me your religions belief when you persist in arguing for something for which there is no evidence. It is called blind faith: the same blind faith that atheists routinely accuse Christians of having.

Truth be told, Punctuated Equilibrium does not require any type of fossils evidence, much less a "complete record continuous variation between species in the fossil record." All it requires is that the gullible believe it happened like Stephen Gould and Niles Eldridge opined. That is your idea of the scientific method?


Punctuated Equilibrium will remain an opinion until evidence is presented to take it from fairytale to reality. So instead of telling more of your personal philosophy and that of Gould and Eldridge, your best bet is to find evidence in the fossils record in support of macroevolution myth.

Something tells me you've got your work cut out.



Alter2Ego


[FONT=&quot]________________
[/FONT]"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom