Get off my property

[KitaYama]

We are on a 10 days holidays here.
Me and some friends are sitting in a camping site talking nonsense and someone shows us this news on TikTak.
Now everyone is on fire and fighting, but none of us has a clue what the correct answer is, because none of us has been living in US ever.
So this is the question we are fighting on:

Someone rushes to your yard and start shouting at you and your family, complaining about something.
You warn the intruder to get out of your property (Can we call him an intruder? because he's just standing there and shouting)
But he doesn't follow your order.
You have warned him three times and he doesn't follow. According to law, are you allowed to shoot him or not?

We are not talking about having gun is good or bad. or the legality of gun or comparing other countries to US.
We just need to know what the actual law is.

Thank you.

 

[NauticalGent]

It depends on the State you live in, but at faca value, given the situation as you have laid it out, the answer is no.

The trespasser has shown no sign of being a threat and the owner would probably be charged with manslaughter at a minimum.

Contrary to popular belief, we don't walk around with guns on our hips spoiling for a chance to shoot somebody...

 

[KitaYama]

It depends on the State you live in

Is there any state that allows it?

Contrary to popular belief, we don't walk around with guns on our hips spoiling for a chance to shoot somebody...

No body thinks so.
But the man who may shoot, is in his home. not out. And most (or a lot of) people have gun in their home.

 

[NauticalGent]

If someone comes into your home uninvited, most states will tolerate you shooting them. It depends on the circumstances.

What percentage of Americans own a gun, do you think?

 

[KitaYama]

What percentage of Americans own a gun, do you think?

I'm not sure, But I think more than %80 of households.

 

[NauticalGent]

I'm not sure, But I think more than %80 of households.

The answer is about 40%. I myself just became a gun owner last year at the tender age of 57...

 

[KitaYama]

If someone comes into your home uninvited, most states will tolerate you shooting them. It depends on the circumstances.

I just lost 10 bucks. My money was on it's allowed.
There was a thread here talking about guns, and several post on occasions where parents who shot their children, when they came back home silently.
It gave me the impression it's allowed to shoot an intruder.

At least I know the law and the real answer.
thanks.

 

[KitaYama]

The answer is about 40%. I myself just became a gun owner last year at the tender age of 57...

Well, it seems our news is not that accurate. Though they don't give an exact number, but all of my friends are socked with that 40% rate.

 

[NauticalGent]

I would say you were right. More often than not, the shooter would not get charged, but again, it depends

 

[NauticalGent]

Well, it seems our news is not that accurate. Though they don't give an exact number, but all of my friends are socked with that 40% rate.

The thought it was higher? Did you mean to say 80%?

 

[KitaYama]

The thought it was higher? Did you mean to say 80%?

Yes, When I asked your question here, most answers were Every household, 90%. or above.
I chose the smallest number between us and it was 80%.

 

[NauticalGent]

Yes, When I asked your question here, most answers were Every household, 90%. or above.
I chose the smallest number between us and it was 80%.

While I was in Praque, I drank some beers with some Belgians and they simply did not believe I didn't own a motorcycle or a gun. It's funny how the media has painted us to the rest of the world.

 

[KitaYama]

how the media has painted us to the rest of the world.

I don't think there's an intention here. It's how human misjudge the situation based on what they see and hear. We only sum up the information we are given and make a general rule out of it.
You see, If I see a lot of posts about gun shootings in a city, it gives me the impression everyone or the majority of people own and carry a gun.

When we see a movie where the detective is running after the suspect and when he runs across the street, every car honk their horn and they hard brake with screech and we see it several times in different movies, it gave us the imagination of :
1- everyone is running over 60 miles per hour in streets
2- It's normal to honk the horn (here it's very impolite and aggressive if you horn at somebody or other cars)

We had a guest for our company, and because I understand English a little, I was asked to go to airport. (It proved I'm only good in writing and suck in hearing and speaking)
While driving him to the site, he was surprised no-one is wearing Kimono.

 

[NauticalGent]

While driving him to the site, he was surprised no-one is wearing Kimono.

Guilty as charged. When I landed in Tokyo in 1984 at the tender age of 18, I expected to see something out of James Clavell's "Shogun"

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The law on the "shoot the trespasser" case would depend VERY HEAVILY on the degree of aggressiveness of the trespasser and also would depend on whether you were at the time in a state with a "stand your ground" law. Basically, you must feel threatened and there must be some belief that the threat is real. When an unarmed guy is yelling and waving his arms, he might just have a bee in his underwear - or he might be mentally deranged. It will ALWAYS depend on the level of perception of any potential threat. If he is more or less staying in one place and not advancing, use of a gun would be prohibited.

We have also just had a major upheaval in our state and national gun laws to the point that some of those more restrictive states will find their laws are in flux. The U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that certain restrictive gun laws were in violation of the U.S. Constitution (specifically, the 2nd amendment). California, New York, New Jersey, and several other states will be facing lawsuits for their restrictions and the federal government will be facing lawsuits caused by the highly restrictive actions of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

I know that in my home state of Louisiana, we have a "castle doctrine" that says our home is our castle and we can defend it, but there has to be a real threat. Florida has a "stand your ground" law, as does Alabama. I'm betting but not guaranteeing that Mississippi also has such a law. The difference between the two is that "castle doctrine" says that an unauthorized person in your home or on your property who doesn't leave on command MAY be treated as a threat. "Stand your ground" applies anywhere (at home or not) and says you do not have to flee from an attacker if you have the means to defend yourself.

Two other points:

1- everyone is running over 60 miles per hour in streets

Not in city streets in the New Orleans area, because the streets are too bad, too uneven for your car's suspension to survive such speed. Every block on older streets is a small-scale speed bump just waiting to capture a tire, rim, or axle. After Hurricane Ida, a lot of streets buckled due to flood-induced subsidence, and the remnants of such subsidence after Hurricane Katrina was still being cleaned up when Ida passed through.

2- It's normal to honk the horn (here it's very impolite and aggressive if you horn at somebody or other cars)

Impolite and aggressive? Are you sure you haven't been near south Louisiana drivers? Because you just described them perfectly. I remember a study done many years ago in which driver aggressiveness was estimated based on court cases of road rage and other infractions, and New Orleans was the 5th worst driving city in the USA behind New York City, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., and either Houston or Dallas (I forget which one, but both were in the top (...er, bottom?) 10 in that category.

 

[KitaYama]

@The_Doc_Man Thanks for the detailed reply. Both your and @NauticalGent's reply caused a new discussion.

you must feel threatened and there must be some belief that the threat is real

A friend is asking:
In those states that "Stand your Ground" or "Castle doctrine" doesn't apply, you can not shoot a Thief. Can you?
Without any warning, can you shoot a thief who has sneak into your home in the middle of the night?

And a question from me :
This difference between state laws isn't confusing for you. (By you I mean everyone)
When you move between states, or you are on a trip to other states, do you normally study the difference between the laws of two states?
If there's a difference between the highest allowed speed and you're not aware of the difference, you may end up a ticket. No problem.
But not knowing the difference you explained above, you may end up with a manslaughter case.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Without any warning, can you shoot a thief who has sneak into your home in the middle of the night?

Again, if at any time you feel your life is in danger, particularly if you see a weapon, you can shoot. There are definitions in the laws about when you cannot shoot. For example, if a person breaks into your home and you tell them to leave (without having to show a gun to persuade them) then the law says they are no longer a threat and you can't shoot them. If you felt threatened and fired a shot, but then the intruder runs and leaves, you cannot shoot the fleeing burglar or intruder.

In states where you don't have "Stand your ground" or "Castle doctrine" it gets complex as to whether you can shoot, but every state has some definition regarding self-defense.

Your question about speed limits is usually moot because most jurisdictions post their speed limits and there is a rule that says, "If it ain't posted, it ain't true." (Actually, can't be enforced if not posted.) Most of the time states have the same limits - 70 mph on the Interstate Highway system, lesser amounts on main rural highways, and 35 on main city streets. As low as 20 mph on residential side streets.

Because our gun laws are in flux after that Supreme Court decision, it is probably still not a good idea to carry a gun across state lines. The very act of transporting a gun could still be a felony in some states. The dust on that recent decision still hasn't settled.

 

[KitaYama]

thanks for clarification..

 

[Grumm]

While I was in Praque, I drank some beers with some Belgians and they simply did not believe I didn't own a motorcycle or a gun. It's funny how the media has painted us to the rest of the world.

As a Belgian myself, I can agree
The media here thinks that they are all cowboys shooting all over the place.
And of course you have to own a motorcycle, drive some kind of big 4x4 Cadillac or mustang (Chevrolet is acceptable)

I am surprised it is only 40% (yet it is a big number) But we will be surprised how many Europeans also has guns at home.
At my parent's house in France, we had a few shotguns (mostly for hunting with permit) and a few air rifles.
And most farmers where I grew up had similar guns too.

 

[NauticalGent]

The media here thinks that they are all cowboys shooting all over the place.

- that is what they said too. Hopefully they have a little more objectivity now. Those youngsters could really drink too!

drive some kind of big 4x4 Cadillac or mustang (Chevrolet is acceptable)

Chevrolet is NEVER acceptable, and for the record, I drive a Subaru...how anti-climatic is THAT?