I'm amazed! (1 Viewer)

[Harrybrigham]

Here's one that won't. When I had my pulmonary emboli, religion was the last thing on my mind, and I didn't think I would survive.

 

[Isaac]

When it comes to religion (and politic) the main problem is one tries to prove he's right and the other side is wrong.
Nobody can accept my ideology is mine and let the other side believe in has his/hers. Normally most people can't understand it's not math. So the possibility of being right or wrong is the same for both sides.
No matter you are an atheist or a believer, as long as you want to force your idea on the opposite side or try to prove God exists or not, or insist on you are correct and the other party is wrong, you are a part of the problem.

You are an athirst? A believer? Great. Just don't try or ask me to change my mind. And I promise. I won't try to prove you are on the wrong side of the fence.

Just my 2 cent.


Edit : After posting and reading it a second time, I felt that was harsh. I didn't mean to be rude. My apologies.

I would respectfully just disagree with that.
If a person *REALLY* believes that (something) is the way to heaven and is the only truth, it makes no sense to me to expect that person, if they care about others at all, to not attempt to spread that information around so as to be able to save some. You don't have to like that, but I can't see that it's reasonable to not at least expect it.
I extend that same understanding when JW's or Mormons come to my door. We both see each other as people needing the truth to set them free and save them. If wanting to save other people's lives isn't positive loving & caring, I sure don't know what is!

If you believe a bus is about to hit me, wouldn't you pull me back if you could?

 

[Isaac]

I'm an atheist so this is all tripe to me.

In Mexico they absolutely swear by those little tacos!

 

[Isaac]

I have always wondered why in places, where people are badly treated for their convictions, they still insist on proclaiming them. In some countries this amounts to virtual suicide. A little, life preserving, lie might save them.

I'm kind of on the fence about this myself.
I sometimes think when the time comes when someone tells me "Renounce the Bible, or die" I suppose I could say "ok fine. I renounce it",, while continuing to believe it of course ... Since "man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart". Then again, there seems to be times when God calls his people to stand for His name, despite persecution. Usually in those areas or times throughout history, the Christian church (body of people) has actually grown stronger.
I figure it's a matter of individual conscience.
When is the time I would run, hide & lie ...versus the time to basically accept the martyrdom or persecution .

 

[KitaYama]

if they care about others at all, to not attempt to spread that information around

Spreading the information and forcing the information on others are two different things.

If you believe a bus is about to hit me, wouldn't you pull me back if you could?

If I see a bus is going to hit you, I'll push you to save you. You may get some injuries, but it's OK. When you see the passing bus, you'll see the danger and will thank me.
When it comes to religion, how many times have you seen a believer has been able to make an atheist believe in God? You try to save them, but they don't want to be saved. and vice a verse.
To be true, I don't think you'll be able to change Doc's mind if you spend a thousand years to explain your ideology. And he won't be able to make you an give up your God if he spends a million years.
So what's the point.
But well, it's your choice. If you want to test it, give it a try. And please send me a reminder when you succeeded to change his mind.


@Isaac Last week I was thinking of sending you a PM and ask you to watch two clips.
Now that you brought this topic up, I'll post it here:
there is another one. It's very long (more than an hour) and is a lecture in a university about Darwin's evolution against Bible's story, where the students asked him questions and he answered.

 

[conception_native_0123]

that's about the most stupid video I've ever watched.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

When it comes to religion (and politic) the main problem is one tries to prove he's right and the other side is wrong.
Nobody can accept my ideology is mine and let the other side believe in has his/hers. Normally most people can't understand it's not math. So the possibility of being right or wrong is the same for both sides.
No matter you are an atheist or a believer, as long as you want to force your idea on the opposite side or try to prove God exists or not, or insist on you are correct and the other party is wrong, you are a part of the problem.

You are an athirst? A believer? Great. Just don't try or ask me to change my mind. And I promise. I won't try to prove you are on the wrong side of the fence.

Just my 2 cent.


Edit : After posting and reading it a second time, I felt that was harsh. I didn't mean to be rude. My apologies.

Absolutely not harsh compared to many exchanges that have occurred on this subject. Let me clarify my position as an example of your first statement. I do not care what anyone believes. I absolutely recognize everyone's right to believe what they believe. HOWEVER, if someone on the forum makes a purportedly factual statement that I can refute or dispute, I will often do so.

Earlier in this thread, @Isaac commented that he and I often discuss religion as adversaries but we try to avoid drastic insults. We try to keep it civil. And I strongly agree to that statement. I don't need to excoriate Isaac for his beliefs.

Pat's statements about Sharia Law are correct to the extent that I could research them. The only saving grace is that in the USA, it is possible to have variant degrees of belief in the absolutism of Sharia Law, just as we have various schisms among the churches with varying degrees of forgiveness and tolerance.

It IS possible to have a laid-back Muslim. In the countries where the Muslims are surrounded by near-anarchistic jihadists, not so possible. I have a neighbor I see on my daily walks. He emigrated from Syria many years ago. He has his beliefs and I have mine. We have discussed some Muslim issues without coming to blows. He has embraced much of the USA's reach for equality.

 

[Isaac]

When it comes to religion, how many times have you seen a believer has been able to make an atheist believe in God?

Well that's easy: Many millions every year.

But I agree with you there is a difference between forcing and offering of course.

I don't think anything should be forced but I don't think the other extreme is appropriate either, where people have come to expect that there will not even be preaching or what you might call proselytization.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I don't think the other extreme is appropriate either, where people have come to expect that there will not even be preaching or what you might call proselytization.

I understand that folks will try to convince me. Probably would be a big disappointment for them. Where I get really miffed is when I say "No thank you" and they persist. Because it won't take me long to pull out the refutations at that point. And I HAVE to say I have encountered folks like that on more than one occasion.

 

[conception_native_0123]

And I HAVE to say I have encountered folks like that on more than one occasion.

yeah, me!

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Adam, you eventually got the message. The people who bother me most are the folks who just KNOW that I can be serious about atheism - even though I am. It is as though they believe that I cannot think for myself, that I need someone to take over my life because somehow my atheism is a sign of mental incompetence. But it isn't. My decision is reasoned and - if you look at the statistics - not that uncommon. I took over my mother's care when she developed Alzheimer's Disease, but I'm not <knock wood> developing any signs of medical dementia myself.

 

[Isaac]

I agree with that, Doc. If I was knocking on doors and someone said no thank you, please leave, I wouldn't think the 'preacher' person ought to behave like an Anderson Window salesman

 

[conception_native_0123]

I'm not <knock wood> developing any signs of medical dementia myself.

glad to hear!

 

[jpl458]

it also begs the question: why do muslims hate so much when someone tells them that Jesus is the only true God?

And what about the 2,500 other god worshiped on the planet? Are they all one guy?