Iraq: The Policy Dilemma

[ColinEssex]

My quess would be 99% of the forum members period.

there's 35,775 members, I think your guess is exactly that - a guess. It was a nice quiet week though wasn't it?

I don't have the resilience to endure any more of your sarcasim

sarcasm? - I've been holding back on that I try not to do that too much

Col

 

[KenHigg]

sarcasm? - I've been holding back on that I try not to do that too much

Col

Where? In another forum somewhere?

 

[Rich]

My quess would be 99% of the forum members period. Sorry

You mean those that just pop in and out on the odd occasion and always have done?

 

[Rich]

OK, OK, why is this even in there then? Looks like just useless trivial information.

Most of it is useless trivia and again is written by an American, sadly therein lies the problem with trying to be objective towards Iraq or even the term "why the world hates America"

 

[Matt Greatorex]

OK, OK, why is this even in there then? Looks like just useless trivial information.

My guess would be it was aimed at people who scan through pieces like this, looking for 'hard' numbers. 216 is only slighlly higher than 185, so if that was all you judged your opinion on, it wouldn't look as bad. Plus, it allows for the production of nice graphs and the like, for displaying during press conferences.

 

[FoFa]

My guess would be it was aimed at people who scan through pieces like this, looking for 'hard' numbers. 216 is only slighlly higher than 185, so if that was all you judged your opinion on, it wouldn't look as bad. Plus, it allows for the production of nice graphs and the like, for displaying during press conferences.

Maybe, but I think they sound like an idiot throwing all those numbers out, then in the next sentence saying, they don't mean anything. I don't mind reading right wing political fluff or even liberal propaganda, and trying to figure ouot what is really there, but what is the purpose of saying something, and the next sentence saying "nevermind?"

 

[Rich]

, but what is the purpose of saying something, and the next sentence saying "nevermind?"

Helps to get your name "in lights"

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Maybe, but I think they sound like an idiot throwing all those numbers out, then in the next sentence saying, they don't mean anything. I don't mind reading right wing political fluff or even liberal propaganda, and trying to figure ouot what is really there, but what is the purpose of saying something, and the next sentence saying "nevermind?"

It would convince anyone who only read/listened that far? I'm guessing.

 

[FoFa]

OK, I went back and read it again. truthfully I don't see where this appears to lean to either politcal side. Seems to be more informative than political in nature. unless the scenario is just bogus, but sounds about right from what we are seeing. So other than one stupid paragraph, I find it an interesting read.

 

[Rich]

ok Let's start to take this idiot apart

Counterinsurgency is unlike other warfare. In other warfare, the goal is to defeat an enemy army, and civilian casualties as a result of military operations are expected and acceptable.

Who the hell decided that civillian casualties are acceptable, America?
like I said at the start discussing this with America simply cannot be objective, it will not take the blinkers off!

 

[FoFa]

ok Let's start to take this idiot apart


Who the hell decided that civillian casualties are acceptable, America?
like I said at the start discussing this with America simply cannot be objective, it will not take the blinkers off!

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. you are saying something the articule did not. The people who make war, know and expect civilian casulties, as part of making war. As Americans, we do not want to see civilian casalties, but it is what it is. It could be worse, war could still be fought like WW II where Germany was just throwing V2 rockets at London as an example. Not that it justifies, it just is.

 

[Rich]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. you are saying something the articule did not. The people who make war, know and expect civilian casulties, as part of making war. As Americans, we do not want to see civilian casalties, but it is what it is. It could be worse, war could still be fought like WW II where Germany was just throwing V2 rockets at London as an example. Not that it justifies, it just is.

But we, i.e. Bush and bliar started this war and as such BUSH especially are looking for excuses to justify it. THE idiot who wrote this article is totally missing the point. There was no justification for this war, it was fought on a lie and as such the statement that civillian casualties are acceptable is crimininal in itself

 

[KenHigg]

OK, I went back and read it again. truthfully I don't see where this appears to lean to either politcal side. Seems to be more informative than political in nature. unless the scenario is just bogus, but sounds about right from what we are seeing. So other than one stupid paragraph, I find it an interesting read.

As did I. For me it was interesting from a 'where is this thing headed' perspective.

 

[ColinEssex]

As Americans, we do not want to see civilian casalties,

Why not? Too shocking for you? If you don't see it on your TV it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Maybe you should see it if you can find uncensored TV somewhere.
Have a look at the coffins arriving in the USA daily of your dead soldiers, have a look at the dead civilians that Bush has had killed, have a look at the disease ridden streets in Baghdad, the children dying of malnutrition / lack of medicines / lack of sanitation / lack of electricity / lack of clean water. All destroyed by the great world saving USA government.

43,000 civilian deaths and 2,500+ US soldiers dead - for what? all because the US government over-reacted.
US soldiers dead count

There are almost as many US military who died in Iraq than there were in the twin towers thing of 11/9.

Col

 

[Len Boorman]

Myself I do not really see there is a dilema, but I am a simple soul.

Regardless of the legality, lies etc about why we (collective for all nationalities) are there to me it appears that the Iraqi people have no interest in having a democratic society. Civil war is a fact not a possibility.

Since there is no interest in democracy lets all pull out, close our borders to all Iraqi citizens and let them sort themselves out.

Len

 

[ColinEssex]

Since there is no interest in democracy lets all pull out, close our borders to all Iraqi citizens and let them sort themselves out.

I think that now its all been screwed by the "West", they now want Saddam back.

What actually made Bush think that bombing the hell out of a country then trying to impose "democracy" on a them would work. Did he expect them to roll over and say how fab the USA government is and embrace a new way of living?

I was reading on the USA Today website how the US tourists are being spat at, verbally attacked and generally not welcomed in various countries - especially Spain, all since the USA's quest for world domination.

Col

 

[KenHigg]

...since the USA's quest for world domination.

Col

My, my... Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

 

[Len Boorman]

I think that now its all been screwed by the "West", they now want Saddam back.

Col

I do not think that is quite the case. I think that various power groups are attempting to take over from where Saddam left off. It seems that secretarian executions run at about 30-40 per day. Muslims versus Muslims it seems.


That to me is civil war and this has resulted from the removal of the dictatorship that existed.

If it is Muslims versus Muslims then I do not agree it is a total screw up by the West, They merely provided the opportunity for the previously suppressed factions to come into the open and have a go at each other, and anybody else who potentially stood in their way of imposing their doctrine on the whole of Iraq.

The same situation would probably have existed if Saddam had just been extracted from the scene.

I do not believe that any extended presence by the West will improve the situation. They are now between two factions, neither of which has any wish to enter into any form of discussion, The Iraqi people to me do not seem to offer any support to the West .. so as I said. Close the door and let them sort it themselves.

As you know I am not a supporter of Blair. I do not support his close association with Bush. I believe Saddam was a threat to the West It was either remove him or isolate Iraq totally

The powers chose to remove him, having done that they should have then said, Iraq you have 7 days to either show your support for the West or we are off and its over to you.
Len

 

[ColinEssex]

My, my... Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

I am ambedextrous, I can get out on any side

Col

 

[KenHigg]

I am ambedextrous, I can get out on any side

Col

I'm guessing you just didn't get enough scoot... er, I mean motor-bike time this week end.