Je Suis Charlie (1 Viewer)

[essaytee]

You need to post that....

Thanks
Blade

Found it

 

[Bladerunner]

I ran upon this document the other day and have been debating with myself on whether it would be appropriate to post it on this particular thread.

With an high indifference to those who do not want to know or could care less, I am posting the following url for those who would like to know why so many innocent people lost their lives the other day.

http://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-a...!/?cid=otr-marketing_url-sunni_shia_infoguide

Blade

 

[Brianwarnock]

An interesting read, but not sure how the Sunni - Shia schism is responsible for the death of the cartoonists as all Muslims object to criticism etc of their faith and Mohammed .

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

Actually, if you read about Shi'ite muslims, you would see that Shi'ites aren't, as a rule, bothered by them. Being pissed off about depictions of Mohammed in general is more a Sunni thing. (Blasphemous depictions are another thing entirely, but even there they're more tolerant in general. The imam who pretty much leads Hezbollah in Lebanon came out saying that those terrorist attacks did FAR more damage to Islam than the magazine covers ever did.)

 

[Bladerunner]

An interesting read, but not sure how the Sunni - Shia schism is responsible for the death of the cartoonists as all Muslims object to criticism etc of their faith and Mohammed .

Brian

Hi Brian; I put it out there so all could read it and decide where the terrorist come from and why they resort to terrorism. Justification for the killings at Charlie Hebdo is not needed because of their hatred for Non-believers that even extends even within their own ranks.

Those people killed in the deli or whatever it was had not drawn any cartoons. They were across the city. These people (you decide who) just Hate non-believers. In their minds, they are at War with us. Simple as that.

Until the world looks at these acts that way, these killings will continue and personally I do not see the world changing its philosophy on this subject any time soon.

Blade

 

[ColinEssex]

It's a shame Obama couldn't be arsed to come over to Paris and stand with the 40 other heads of state to show unity.

I doubt he could find time in between golf rounds, yet when he wants something he's over here begging like a shot.

Or, it's more probable yanks have no idea where France is. Either way, some commentators are saying it is a deliberate snub by the USA towards Europe.

Col

 

[Bladerunner]

It's a shame Obama couldn't be arsed to come over to Paris and stand with the 40 other heads of state to show unity.

I doubt he could find time in between golf rounds, yet when he wants something he's over here begging like a shot.

Or, it's more probable yanks have no idea where France is. Either way, some commentators are saying it is a deliberate snub by the USA towards Europe.

Col

Hi Colin: I would like to apologize to the people of Europe and especially to the people of France for our cowardly government officials. Those of us who do not believe in liberalism and the isolationism it brings with it stand with you. While I stated the other day that peaceful protest by the people only helps to define laws to be written in the future; Solidarity of the leadership from the European countries means a whole lot more. It gives me hope that the in-roads made by the radical Islamist can be nullified. Again I apologize for our cowardly liberal government.

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

What did you guys think of the first cartoon edition of the magazine since the shootings?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

I am not sure taking the piss as this magazine does is in fact a good thing.

Two fellas having a fight in the street, over something we consider ridiculous and illogical, isn't helped by others on the sidelines taking the piss.

In fact it only inflames the situation. Take the piss out of ISIS or Al Qaeda or the PM the president etc

But the Islam itself and the prophet. I am not sure its helpful. Having said that it in no way justifies a violent response.

 

[ConnorGiles]

It's what I thought myself Anthony, It certainly won't make the situation any better will it?

Non-Radical Islamists disapproved of the first drawing itself, but making this new drawing does not only target ISIS and Al Qaeda it targets them also.

It certainly wasn't an intelligent call, It seems to me to be drawn out of spite with no thought to the repercussions.

I mean I know this was a terrible time for them all and I cannot imagine the pain their families are now suffering. But I wouldn't say it Justified a drawing about the whole Islamic religion.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I think that they think they are showing they won't be cowed, but although I have never read the magazine it does appear to tread a fine line between free expression and deliberate provocation.
It is well known that Muslims consider any depiction of Mohammed as blasphemous so why do it . One might argue that a non believer cannot be blasphemous but that is not the point.

A balance has to be drawn on free expression and respect for others.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

As you say there is a fine line, But in my opinion it has been crossed.

It may be freedom of expression but it doesn't make it any less offensive to the innocents that follow this religion.

I would view it as Deliberate Provocation (in my opinion of course)

 

[Bladerunner]

I think that they think they are showing they won't be cowed, but although I have never read the magazine it does appear to tread a fine line between free expression and deliberate provocation.
It is well known that Muslims consider any depiction of Mohammed as blasphemous so why do it . One might argue that a non believer cannot be blasphemous but that is not the point.

A balance has to be drawn on free expression and respect for others.

Brian

Do you mean the Islam religion only ? IF so, why... Because they got guns and threaten you. How many are going to have to die before you understand. Charlie Hebdo really had nothing to do with it. It was just a tool to bring you under submission and for some it worked. A little bit at a time and pretty soon? While Charlie Ebdo is little more than the infamous "Mad Magazine" of the past, it does serve as light to watch. Does it go out or stay in?

Blade

 

[Brianwarnock]

I feel a trifle insulted that you think I mean that respect should only be shown to Islam, I don't think any insult should result in violence, on the other hand whilst one can argue about beliefs publicly ridiculing them is a different matter.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

So you condone targeting a whole religion just because of a minority Blade?

EDIT: and please oh please don't say this was another comment about liberals because I think we all know where you stand on the liberal points

 

[Brianwarnock]

I sense a certain hypocrisy on the forum when I think of the reactions to Rich and Cols comments about the USA.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

I sense a certain hypocrisy on the forum when I think of the reactions to Rich and Cols comments about the USA.

Brian

To whom are you referring Brian?

I'm not too sure what you are getting at?

 

[Bladerunner]

I feel a trifle insulted that you think I mean that respect should only be shown to Islam, I don't think any insult should result in violence, on the other hand whilst one can argue about beliefs publicly ridiculing them is a different matter.

Brian

I was not intending to insult anybody especially you or Connor. I went back a read your post and quite frankly, I responded in the wrong way. Let me explain in another post where I have time to get my point across without insulting anyone, I hope.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Many Moons ago (2001), the United States invaded Iraq with the intentions of over throwing Sadam Hussein. Afterwards we removed him from power we decided to try our hand at Nation building. Back then even I had a “liberal” moment to the extent that if we could free these people from the oppression they were under, setup a new democratic government and teach them how to run it, the world would be a whole lot better off. You know the rest. It was a bad idea. WHY? I belief it was because the people were not ready for neither Freedom nor Democracy and their religion kept getting in the way.


Have you ever asked yourself, why did the Muslim come to England, America, France? To get away from all the fighting?. To get a shot at a better life? Then why do they live in squaller in these enclaves. Why do they permit Sharia Law to follow them and control them. All they have to do is ask and the country they are in would protect them if they truly wanted to change. The truth is: they bring it with them. This is in their long term goal and their goal is a worldwide Caliphate.


The minority you speak of are right where they want to be. They are the problem. They are Radical Islam. Do we target them to kill? No but we do take away the Sharia law they live under and force them to live within that countries framework of laws. Like I stated before, I believe it has gone too far to allow the law enforcement to reinstate Frances civilian laws within these enclaves without some sort of bloodshed.
As far as the cartoons go, yes, they are provocative, yes, they are free speech and yes, the (editors) should not print them if for no other reason than decency. Sadly some people have none of this. However, if you stop or change your ways in order to coexist, they win. You give up another freedom that was there yesterday. You say, if they keep on printing the Blasphemes, someone else is going to die. Yes they will, until you get a handle on your country and outlaw any Sharia-Law even if this takes DEPORTING some of the masses back to their original countries. You say, this would be inhumane??????? Better then killing them or had you rather keep them in your country.
To say that all Muslims are bad is ridiculous. You do have Muslims that have come to yours and my countries and have assimilated to our way of living. They live amongst us and not in areas run by the radical Muslim clerics. These people unless sleepers have shown they enjoy the democratic way of life and are free from the long arms of Radical Islam. However, even then you are taking a chance. (i.e. Fort Hood Shootings)
Hope this helps, I meant no insults to anyone on the thread.

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

I wasn't insulted Blade, I just think you worded your comments wrong, I do agree with some of the points you made here such as if they come to your country they should learn to live by your countries way of life. (yet again I will refer back to a previous post I made on this subject, Putin said this in an interview and I completely agree with him)

http://viralsurvival.com/2014/10/01/vladimir-putins-epic-speech-on-muslims/

This was his supposed speech, although I cannot find any video evidence I do agree with what was said - (either by him or whoever made it up).

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But then again there isn't only radical Islam, Some may say what they are doing pales in comparison to the crusades we did to the Muslim population. (This in no way condones what we or they did.)

History always seems to repeat itself Blade, And I'm sorry to say, but in my mind Religion (no matter which one) will always cause problems as long as religion comes above common sense.