Long in the tooth

[NauticalGent]

I came across a poll by Blueish Dan. Had no idea the demographic, as far as age is concerned, of this forum.

I do understand that a mere fraction participated, but most of the ones who did participate are the ones who post the most. It was refreshing to know I ain't the only old fart here but kind of disheartening at the same time to see the low number of young guns learning the esoteric art of Access.

 

[CJ_London]

Think there are two types of young guns. Those that just use the wizards that get the job done to their satisfaction - which is a tick for MS for providing a workable tool. And those that know how to use the internet to find the answers or sufficient clues and hints to work it out for themselves so don't ask questions in the first place - or just use the forums to point them in the right direction. Either way, they don't have the time to be a regular responder.

Lets face it, the principles of Access have not changed significantly over the years, the rules of table construction are the same, forms and reports have a little additional functionality. All possible questions have been asked over the years and answered many times on this and/or other forums or even MS.

There is much which is below the surface still unexplored, but to what benefit? That's the bit I'm enjoying at the moment. I think of Access or any app (and I think you'll appreciate the analogy) as an ocean - most users are happy to sail on the surface, but below is a whole different world where new experiences can be discovered, developed and applied. Allen Browne has done much to help the 'sailors', Stephen Leban the 'submariners'.

 

[Minty]

Allen Browne has done much to help the 'sailors', Stephen Leban the 'submariners'.

Well put CJ.
I too am probably now into the old farts club.

I really want to learn and look at using OOP within Access and just have failed dismally to find time to do so. It looks very powerful but a little bit "Mystical" at the same time to my tired old eyes. The stuff posted here seems to go over my head unfortunately. Maybe I need to find an online course. And Time.

 

[CJ_London]

I started on with OOP (pascal) but like table design, requires a lot of pre planning so you need to know what to put in and what you want out.

Someone found this link which I think explains the process quite well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyosL3kG7DM

It's a fairly simple example so is developed 'on the fly' but gives some idea of the thinking involved. It's 90 minutes long so keep coffee to hand!

The issue is usually that you try to make the objects too complex

 

[jdraw]

Here is a link to a thread on the forum seeking links, examples, more info on
MsAccess and OOP, class modules etc.

Also, re CJ's post #2 here --very nice analogy.
I remember a graphic on the cover of a book by James Martin -it shows an iceberg

--20% above ocean surface and 80% below --- the detail may be hidden, but you can't forget that it exists.

 

[NauticalGent]

Very lucid and on-point response CJL, thank you. Anyone who knows anything about Access has heard of Allen Browne. The other individual I have not heard of, but Dr. Google will help me fix that.

Enjoy Vienna, sorry I couldn't make it...can the London Christsmas thing happen?

 

[CJ_London]

@NG - Looking forward to Vienna - Have a great time in Budapest

This is Stephen Lebans website http://www.lebans.com/

 

[CJ_London]

And the Christmas do - I'll see if I can make it happen, otherwise how does the Cotswolds sound?

 

[Minty]

Cotswolds is local (ish)

 

[CJ_London]

So's Wiltshire Are you north or south?

Lechlade is about 30 mins from here (not quite Wiltshire I know)

 

[The_Doc_Man]

As to "long in the tooth" ... yes, I qualify.

I look on the forum as a way to "pass it forward." I don't claim to know all there is about Office or its parts. But every now and then a question comes up and I learn something new as I research it a bit to see if I can clarify something - first for myself - so that I can then explain something in more down-to-earth terms. (Please hold down the snickering on the idea of me, who often apologizes for being pedantic, talking about "down to earth" on anything.)

I don't miss the craziness of public-sector work, or the private-sector stuff I did before that. At age 69 I have done my share of crazy. But the ability to communicate with people of a more technically oriented nature... that is of value.

 

[Scott_Hall]

I just turned 40, so I guess I'm "medium toothed".

My experience has been that the cold war that company IT departments wage on Access means few folks get a chance to even try it.

Coupled with the lack of innovation/change/support from Microsoft, Access seems relegated to the discount bin.

Sometimes I have people who know nothing about programming still act shocked that I use Access instead of something "normal".

Still, there always seems to be some small segments of the company that use Access, though as their folks retire it looks grim. I know if it wasn't for forums like this and folks like Allen Browne I might have migrated away.

 

[CJ_London]

There are companies out there that won't allow the use of access, but I have a number of more enlightened multi national clients who do use it, often for mission critical elements of the process because it is too expensive to update their enterprise systems.

And even more smaller businesses who don't invest in enterprise scale systems because they want to remain agile.

There must be something in it since MS have reintroduced access to 365 and I've heard rumours that it will be available on the new Samsung G8 as part of the android office package.

I'm attending a conference this weekend where I should hear more.

shocked that I use Access instead of something "normal".

Bet they can't name something 'normal' which doesn't have a steep learning curve

 

[jdraw]

Scott,

I just turned 40, so I guess I'm "medium toothed".

My daughter is older than that...but what does looooong in the tooth really mean?

 

[CJ_London]

according to this

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/long+in+the+tooth

it refers to horses gums receding with age

 

[The_Doc_Man]

it refers to horses gums receding with age

By that standard, I am half qualified. I've often been referred to in a way that describes half of a horse. Usually the half that doesn't whinny.

 

[NauticalGent]

Now THAT'S funny!

 

[Frothingslosh]

I just turned 40, so I guess I'm "medium toothed".

My experience has been that the cold war that company IT departments wage on Access means few folks get a chance to even try it.

Coupled with the lack of innovation/change/support from Microsoft, Access seems relegated to the discount bin.

Sometimes I have people who know nothing about programming still act shocked that I use Access instead of something "normal".

Still, there always seems to be some small segments of the company that use Access, though as their folks retire it looks grim. I know if it wasn't for forums like this and folks like Allen Browne I might have migrated away.

My supervisor at my last employer felt that Access was a terrible program
whose only uses were corrupting data, making it impossible to do your job, and handing information to hackers.

(Side note: I find it hilarious that they are still using my Access data conversion tool to convert Medicare/Medicaid fee schedules from condensed Excel sheets to a specific text format despite the boss SWEARING that all Access programs - that included - are to be changed to a 'real' language. All because they lost their best C++ programmer and the rest can't figure out VBA classes and the recursive tasks needed to translate the state's insanity into a logical list. (The spreadsheets can have different column names in different orders, the first row varies randomly between spreadsheets and months, and quite often anywhere from 2 to 15 lines of data are included in one Excel cell. And you've seen how I (probably excessively) document my code. It's not like I hid what I did.))

My current employer, OTOH, is 6000 people and growing and has several dozen Access specialists attached to different departments. Damned near everything here is a SQL Server/Access combo.