Online Programming

[Learn2010]

I have been using Access for over 25 years. I want to transfer these skills to online database management. That is, I want to be able to put the same types of databases on the web and manage them just like I do with Access.

I have tried different online courses but seem to hit a wall. Something is just not clicking in my brain. Each course seems to imply you already know something. I get confused there. I have taken some C#, a little SQL, and I know some of the VBA in Access. I have set up some phony web sites but have trouble with them.

So, maybe you guys can help me. I would like to start at the bottom again, and I mean at the very beginning. Assume I don't know anything. What do you guys suggest as to the first language I should learn?

Thank you.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I have been using Access for over 25 years. I want to transfer these skills to online database management. That is, I want to be able to put the same types of databases on the web and manage them just like I do with Access.

I have tried different online courses but seem to hit a wall. Something is just not clicking in my brain. Each course seems to imply you already know something. I get confused there. I have taken some C#, a little SQL, and I know some of the VBA in Access. I have set up some phony web sites but have trouble with them.

So, maybe you guys can help me. I would like to start at the bottom again, and I mean at the very beginning. Assume I don't know anything. What do you guys suggest as to the first language I should learn?

Thank you.

Have you considered Office 365 CRM... ? I'm working with a customer on developing a charity fund raising system with it. Not sure yet, it it is/will be powerful/flexible enough, but it looks promising.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Learn2010]

My goal is to manage large databases.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Well I'm not sure you what you mean by large databases but if you're happy with MS Access, then I'm quite sure MySQL will be equal, possibly better. MySQL is the backbone of many websites like WordPress ones. So that's a possible route to get your data on the web so to speak!

To present the data on the internet then you're going to need something for building pages and linking those pages to the MySQL backend. I understand one of the best ways of doing this is with PHP, although I did read somewhere recently that PHP is a "cobbled together" programming language and has inherited some foibles of it's own...

I have never built a functioning MySQL based web database myself, although I have built a few WordPress based databases and I do feel quite comfortable with using MySQL and PHP indirectly through the agency of WordPress.

In preparation for the inevitable shift from MS Access to web based Solutions I did this course by Rob Tucker a few years back. I highly recommend it, it is absolutely brilliant. There is a later course, very similar, but this particular course by Rob has a lot going for it mainly because Rob has such a very nice way of speaking, a nice Cadence, he's very good to listen to.

You can view the course details here on the safari website:-
https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/learning-php-mysql/9781926873114/

Safari books online still have a free offer of 10 days so you can sign up and watch the videos. If you manage to watch all the videos in 10 days then you get the course for free!

I think I saw the course somewhere else for free a while back. Can't remember! So that might be another way to get it, go search for "Learning PHP and MySQL" by Robert J Tucker

Details from the safari website:-
LEARNING PHP MySQL
18 REVIEWS
by Robert J. Tucker
Publisher: Infinite Skills
Release Date: August 2010
ISBN: 9781926873114
Running time: 10:43:15
Topic: PHP

 

[Learn2010]

Thank you, Sir. I will check that out.

 

[plog]

I want to be able to put the same types of databases on the web and manage them just like I do with Access

Can you be more specific? Databases are databases--SQL is the language of them. How does "the web" fit into this? Do you have a specific project in mind?

 

[Learn2010]

No. Just databases in general. I would like to be able to set up web sites so that I could manage the databases there. I now manage several Access databases in a medical setting but the need to leave the facility and access the data is growing. They are bringing in outside companies to do my job.

I have taken several courses including some html and css. I need to just start at the bottom and go through some things. Classes and variables seem to baffle me in how and where the structuring takes place. I have a mind block there for some reason. I figure that if I can start at the bottom I would be able to clear that up and fit that into my thinking. I also know that when I reach a certain point I will be able to move ahead quickly.

Any advice in that direction would help.

Thanks.

 

[plog]

No. Just databases in general. I would like to be able to set up web sites so that I could manage the databases there

Again, databases are databases, SQL is how you interact with them:
https://www.w3schools.com/sql/

Building webpages is another thing and that's what HTML is for. To make them look pretty you use CSS. To make them interactive you use JavaScript.

My suggestion is to get a specific project (build an online game, scrape data from a site and store it, etc.) and work towards making that come true.

 

[Learn2010]

Thank you for help. That gives me some direction.

 

[Learn2010]

Can you use C# instead of SQL?

 

[jdraw]

Learn2010,
Your question is quite open ended as others have mentioned.
If your interest is generally " large database dba", the here is a link that may help.

It might be helpful to readers and get you more focused responses if you could provide some examples of what you think you would like to be doing specifically if you were an "online programmer".

C# and SQL are different animals.

 

[Learn2010]

In creating my own programs I have the freedom to do as I want. First, I would like to create databases that include employee data, patient data, demographics of both, tracking and billing for time involved in services provided to these people.

Another project is for marketing services that would allow interaction by the users, for a fee, for them to store, track, and report on their medical information.

From what I am seeing on these posts, it looks as though SQL, HTML, and CSS is a must. Can you add to this?

 

[jdraw]

Learn2010,

Sometimes the freedom to do anything results in nothing-- sometimes having a specific task/project with boundaries forces you to focus, plan, learn by doing. With 25+ years of Access use you must have experienced other systems or information and/or users with different applications. I would expect that some of these would raise your curiosity to investigate a little deeper. There is so much info on youtube etc you can get lists of IT related job descriptions; interviews with people in jobs/roles; system concepts; analysis and design approaches; specialized areas of IT; emerging technologies;..... A few minutes reviewing some of these subjects on youtube or reading articles should help you narrow down the area(s) of interest.
The online/web aspect of Access will be retired shortly.
As Tony said in post# 4, you may want to investigate PHP/MySQL and the "trial version" of the course.
I have a link to several other links re database planning and design and related topics --some of which may pique your interest.

Good luck with your searching.

 

[Learn2010]

Thank all you guys.

 

[NauticalGent]

Learn2010,
Your question is quite open ended as others have mentioned.
If your interest is generally " large database dba", the here is a link that may help.

Jack, thanks for posting this. My organization was forced to go to SQL Server and since no one in the IT department knows Access, it fell on me to make it happen.

Just to give you a clue as to what I have to deal with, here is a snippet of the conversation:

IT: (chuckling) “No ones uses Access anymore!”
Me: “Really? So what has taken its place?”
IT: “SharePoint!”
Me: “Great, so you’re telling me that there are qualified developers on the staff that can convert this Application to Sharepoint?”
IT: “Well, no...”

In the process of explaining to my bosses about the way ahead, I told them they need to establish a position that requires an SQL Server background, maybe even a DBA who also knows MS Office automation. Their response was “we have you”. I told them that I am not a DBA and it takes a little more than simply knowing how to make tables and such.

Long story short, they have offered to fund my education/certificate to become a DBA. Sounds great up front but I am unsure if this is what I want to do.

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

 

[jdraw]

NG,

There is one thing for sure--if you take any course no one can take that education from you. So, it's always something you have.

A lot of whether the "juice is worth the squeeze" depends on several things.
What is the organization's view on data management? Is there an "enterprise wide" approach to planning or is it silo vs silo?
If you are the one leading the charge to become more "corporate/enterprise" in approach, then be cautious. You need a "patron" who is skilled in the politics and has his/her own incentives for seeing it through.
Are there guidelines or standards for IT generally?

 

[NauticalGent]

First off, Learn2010, I apologize for hijacking this thread. You seem to have gotten your answer so unless you object, I will continue making this thread about me...

There is one thing for sure--if you take any course no one can take that education from you. So, it's always something you have.

Absolutely, which is why I will probably go down that rabbit-hole as long as I do not have to obtain a degree in CS. I took me FOREVER to get my BS (and a whole lot of it) in Tech Management and I do not want to take a bunch of courses that I will not use again. If there is some sort of certificate that streamlines the process, trims the fat and leaves the white-meat then I am all for it.

If you are the one leading the charge to become more "corporate/enterprise" in approach, then be cautious. You need a "patron" who is skilled in the politics and has his/her own incentives for seeing it through.
Are there guidelines or standards for IT generally?

Good advice in general but hard to apply in my situation. Hopefully Doc will see this and provide a more detailed explanation, after all he was once part of the bureaucratic empire that I am about to slander...

The over-arching guidelines start with the Defense Information Systems Agency, works its way to the individual services, in my case Navy. Works its way to the appropriate Systems Commands and in my case to Naval Computer and Telecommunications Station (NCTS) and from there to the individual activities' N6 (IT) department.

I am an auxiliary member of the N6 only because I am the only one who is not afraid of Access and has a Secret Clearance. In other words, any specific guidelines will be established by me as long as I do not violate the long-line of standing guidance from above.

When it comes to individual application like mine, I pretty much have the run of the place because I am restricted to the Region (NCTS). Big Navy only really gets big brother-ish with official Program Of Record applications which this is not.

The individual who was tasked with establishing an instance on SQL Server had no idea on how to migrate Access tables. I watched a series of videos by Steve Bishop and when I was ready, he installed SSMS on my machine and walked away. The group level DSN, migration process and follow-on Maintenance Plan all fell on me to put in place. Thanks God for Youtube and Dr. Google.

Anyway, that's my story and this all stemmed from an earlier thread when I was concerned about "upgrading" from Win7/Office 2010 to Win10/Office 2013.

The whole experience almost made me wish I had stayed with Truck-Driving but then I would not have been given the handle "Nautical Gent".

Thanks again for the links, it was extremely timely and on point.

 

[NauticalGent]

Well Pat, here I was thinking I was nothing but an Access hack in need a some Cert to validate my existence and you have turned me into a Renaissance Man - heads and shoulders above a lowly DBA.

If you ever get tired of being a developer, you may find a niche being an Access Therapist...!

 

[jdraw]

I've been reading and rereading Pat's posts and advice for a long time --I think Access Therapist is overdue.

NG, your comments about gaining a certificate that's focused and trims the fat is really a difficult one to answer. Let me give a couple of examples. If you want to be a graphics designer, you can find and complete some courses. Certainly it can focus your expectations and if you work with specific products and projects, you will gain experience. And that experience will help you decide on this is what I want, or this isn't quite it, yet. So you use the experience and adjust the path accordingly. If you take courses more along the theory/concepts/generalization, you do not get constrained by a specific product too quickly. But at some point you get hired to do something, and a lot of the theory/planning type jobs are occupied, so you often have to get practical and usually that means some sort of project with a completion date. Once you're in "the system", you watch for trends or problems or opportunities and apply/seek to participate according to the situation.
I worked in a government department as programmer analyst, standards, tech support(the old days- mark4, 360 assembler, pdp11 macro11, rsts, rsx11D). There was a shake up and there was an IT/EDP authority guru created and he asked me to work with him. Learned a lot about internal politics, budgets and priorities. Later there was a merger of departments which we used as an opportunity to implement database at a corporate level. This was bringing finance, HR, materiel and about 30 grants and contribution applications together from several departments. This led to the creation of a database group and followed with data dictionary and data modelling.
Later, an IRM Policy group was organized and was heavily into Strategies( following a book ???IRM by Strategy or something??) so the politics and standards evolved even more and application types --corporate , division, branch and personal-- were recognized.

When hiring, we often selected people from adult IT retraining program at community college. These people had various backgrounds - shoe salesman, pharmacy clerk, day care worker, cable TV installer.... they all had life experience; they all went for retraining and they all completed their courses. All this to say there are many diverse paths even when working in a "specific IT field". Some points of interest-- we had urban planners, lay ministers in dba. And as I have said in other posts, most of the people in the data management area were left handed.

Go figure.

 

[Lightwave]

Hi Learn - your question is a pet project of mine

You are asking where do I get something like MS Access except to create web databases?

You are finding it difficult because.... it pretty much doesn't exist. (there are programs that are best described as 'getting there' but event management is vastly simpler and more limited.

Apologies for sending you to my own blog but pressed for time for cutting and pasting the same thing into here. This is a summary of my current position. I am at the moment creating simple mysql and sqlserver databases. But beyond the glitzy bootstrap framework event handling is basic compared with MS Access. I can however publish quickly to the web very big databases that absolutely anyone can use (subject to password and username)

http://rounduptheusualsuspects.org/?p=1360