Rudy

Let us start by saying that illegal immigration is a criminal act, so 100% of those crossing illegally are criminals who are not yet charged. Perhaps for practical reasons it is hard to convict them all, so instead they put them in hotels.

My rebuttal to the crime rate comparisons article is a study that shows that left-leaning academics have been misusing the data, a common mistake (or tactic) when you lead with ideology rather than where the data takes you. They start with a belief and then use data to try to nail that belief to the post, rather than seeing what the data says impartially.


Facts About the DPS Data:
  • Due to delays in identification, the number of illegal immigrants arrested or incarcerated in Texas is undercounted at any given time.
  • Recently convicted illegal immigrants are the most likely to be undercounted.
  • Conversely, Texas is more likely to ascertain the immigration status of offenders who have served long prison terms for serious crimes.
  • The illegal immigrant conviction rate for “any crime” — which would be dominated by offenses requiring little or no prison time — is not meaningful due to undercount.
Properly interpreted, the DPS data suggests that illegal immigrants in Texas are convicted of homicide and sexual assault at higher rates than the state average. Significant uncertainties remain, however, especially regarding lesser offenses.

Even if they were convicted at lower rates, these are still crimes that would not have occured had they not crossed the border.

But despite this, I think we have to not be comparing apples with oranges. Trump says they are sending their rapists, and so forth. He is not saying they are sending innocents to then ra** in the US. These are entirely two different things. He is making a point that they are already rapists who are then crossing the border. The previously cited article is comparing domestic crime rates for immigrants, which is not what Trump is talking about.
 
Last edited:
These people have no means of support or resources. It's the equivalent of dropping your family pet at the edge of the woods and hoping for the best. It's cruel really.

This will cause more suffering not less, but by then the dems will have moved on to their next self caused tragedy.

Our only hope now is there will be a reckoning at the ballot box.
 
@moke123 Your link regarding crime rates for illegal immigrants is not valid. If an illegal immigrant gives the police his drivers license, How do they know he isn't in the country illegally? The government is so intent on hiding the extent of the illegal immigration problem that they refused to allow the 2020 census to have a question regarding immigration status, not even asking people to say they were not legal.
 
What exactly is it we're criticizing here?

In the context of a an hour of other things, Trump said something about immigrants poisoning our blood. So what?

Some people want American to stay essential European which is kind of where we came from and how we started out and although I don't necessarily agree with them...There's nothing particularly evil about wishing that. So he said it, so what??

After going to several other countries, I can tell you that many countries want to stay exactly the way they are. And if millions of people of another race we're pouring in, they wouldn't like it either. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to keep your country away it is.

I guarantee you Mexico wants to stay Mexican
So should we want to stay American, which is land of immigrants? I thought the original immigrants came from Olduvai Gorge in Africa. They poisoned everywhere.
 
So should we want to stay American, which is land of immigrants? I thought the original immigrants came from Olduvai Gorge in Africa. They poisoned everywhere.
again intentionally missing the point
 
And China wants to stay Chinese. And Japan wants to stay Japanese and Finland wants to stay Finish and Egypt does not even want to think about what would happen to it if it somehow got pushed into allowing the Palestinians from Gaza come in and settle in their country. I say, Israel should give Gaza back to Egypt and let them fix the problem.

It is only in America that you are called names and criticized for thinking that you want your country to remain your country. Do you think immigrants who come in legally and go through the process of becoming naturalized consider themselves to be "Americans" OF COURSE they do. That is the whole point. They commit and we accept them. We have been very good over the years of assimilating immigrants and making them into "Americans". It is only the left who slice and dice people into meaningless parts that don't think that blacks, regardless of when/how they got here don't think of themselves as Americans and even encourage this by calling them African-Americans. And the non-leftist among us, consider them every bit as American as anyone else born here (or who immigrated legally) and find it offensive when they think of themselves as anything other than "full blooded" Americans. Why deliberately make yourself "defferent"? Why is a "black" caucus OK but not a "white" one? Why is a "black" only graduation ceremony OK but not a white only one? This is the craziness that has to stop. It is dividing the country.

The points in time where we allowed too many people from any one place are the times when we had trouble assimilating newcomers. It takes a while to learn English and a while to get accustomed to how we do things here. First generation immigrants rarely lose their accents but their children are "full blooded" Americans. If you really think the "old country" is better, come for a vacation and then go home. Don't come here to suck of the teet of our welfare system. We can't absorb NINE MILLION people in a generation let alone in three years. This is destabilizing the country.

It is only in America where we are not allowed to have a secure border. It is only in America that we are not allowed to assimilate immigrants because that would be offensive to them. What is wrong with their "culture"? We must be bigots if we want them to fit in rather than to change us. Change does happen over time. We adopt good ideas but not all ideas are good ones and coming to this country with the intention of not fitting in is really offensive.

In France, they deliberately do not assimilate immigrants and look where that has gotten them.

You jumped right onto the hate Trump bandwagon with your remarks about "blood" because you completely missed his point and since you hate him, all you can see is evil orangeman Hitler. What does that say about you?
I agree with part of what you say, but there you go with the hate thing again. I agree that we should have meaningful immigration policy, but it's hard to get the funding necessary to do it correctly, and it seems to me that the congress does most of the blocking and tackeling on that. I heard a speach in Detroit by Margaret Thatcher, and in that speach she said that the United State was the only country in the world founded on an idea. The idea that all people are created equal. On that point Maggie and I agreed. And I will reinterate, I don't hate anybody, vitriol does not eminate from me.
 
Access, I get the point. We need realistic immigration policy, but what we don't need are racist comments about people trying to go someplace in order to have a better life. Trumps poison comment was absurd, I was just tryiong to point that out in a satrical, and comedy friendly way.
 
but it's hard to get the funding necessary to do it correctly,
No, it is not. Trump had it working very well. You just forgot that. He got Mexico to cooperate and keep the walkers in Mexico until their asylum claims could be validated. He got a large part of the wall built. Biden sold at a huge loss, the material that had not yet been used to complete the wall but strangely enough only after Texas tried to buy it so Texas could install the rest of the wall.

I hope you realize that the majority of asylum claims are denied. One of the reasons is because asylum is an immediate need. You need to get to a safe country and that applies all over the world. Therefore, unless Mexico and Canada devolve into war zones, there is no country that borders ours that has an immediate need to take in asylum seekers. If you get on a plane in Iran and fly to Mexico and walk across our border, you are not seeking "asylum", you are just trying to get to the place that will give you the most "stuff". You would be safe in Mexico and probably every other country you traveled through on your way here. You probably are not coming here because you want to be an American. Iranians HATE America. They chant "death to America" in the streets every time there is a news camera handy. So, the most likely reason that the Iranian is seeking entry into the US is because he means us harm, not because he is seeking the American dream.

We do, take refugees under other circumstances. But those people crossing the Rio Grande do NOT qualify as refugees.

and it seems to me that the congress does most of the blocking and tackeling on that.
The Republicans are every bit as responsible for this idiocy as are the Democrats. They are all feckless pieces of dog poo and they are doing the bidding of their donors, not what the average American wants them do do. If you look at numbers, WE, were the MOST welcoming country in the entire world. WE take in more legal immigrants than all the rest of the countries of the world combined. We also take in millions of temporary workers every year to harvest our crops and to staff our seasonal businesses as well as to fill high tech vacancies. Of course high tech vacancies is another idiotic law. The law specifies that imported workers are not intended to replace American workers and must be paid a salary equivalent to what an American worker would receive. This is the h1b visa law. So, to circumvent the intent of the law, the companies use one major tactic.

The visa holders are not employed directly by American companies. The companies, say Disney and the Hartford Insurance Group (to give two actual examples) lay off their entire IT staff. They hire a consulting firm to outsource their IT department. They pay them much less than they had to pay their American staff. Then they bring in replacement workers, by the busload in the case of the HIG. The HIG workers were informed that morning that to qualify for their separation pay, they needed to train their replacement. The workers are paid by the consulting company and so they can be paid significantly less than the people they replace and the law doesn't cover this because it isn't a person replacing a person. It is a company replacing a function.

This is also done on a smaller scale and it turns out that I was part of the scam back in the 70's. I was working for a very large NYC based nation-wide consulting firm. I was managing a project in Nashville. One of our workers was a Pakistani on an h1b visa. Ozzie went home to meet a bride his family had found for him but when he came back, there was a problem with his visa so he couldn't get in. He flew into Canada and drove across the border where he wasn't even stopped. Now, I had to make sure his visa got renewed and so I put job ads in the local newspapers with a skills list so specific that only Ozzie could qualify and for a rate that was commensurate with what we were paying Ozzie but which was a fraction of what we would have paid an American so we didn't have to worry about any Americans applying.

The other scam with this particular visa program is that it is supposed to be for the cream of the crop. It isn't supposed to be used to replace low level workers. Therefore, every foreign worker we bring in has some kind of super degree because they can say whatever they want to say. Nobody checks. The hiring managers are looking for cheap and they know what they are getting.

in that speach she said that the United State was the only country in the world founded on an idea. The idea that all people are created equal.

She is absolutely correct. Except that we didn't all sign a suicide pact. Allowing NINE MILLION unvetted mostly military age men into this country in three years reeks of a death wish.

Go look for yourself. Do the research. See just how many immigrants we allow in LEGALLY. Compare it to other countries of the world. Do you think China is accepting immigrants? Do you think anyone in their right mind wants to go there? Part of being moral is taking care of your own. What instructions do you get every single time you board an airplane? If the air masks deploy, put on your own before you try to help anyone else. We have to take care of our own and out of control illegal immigration is not what the idea was founded on.
I don't hate anybody, vitriol does not eminate from me.
That is what you say. However, you are always ready to believe evil of others, particularly Trump. If you didn't already hate him, you would be much more willing to think that perhaps his words have some other rational meaning than the evil one that comes immediately to your mind. You should reflect on that last statement. Why do you jump to the "evil" conclusion rather than the "benign" conclusion? You are never willing to assume that he actually has the country's welfare at heart.

but what we don't need are racist comments about people trying to go someplace in order to have a better life. Trumps poison comment was absurd, I was just tryiong to point that out in a satrical, and comedy friendly way.
It is YOU who are transferring YOUR feelings to Trump. Otherwise, why would you always assume the most evil, negative motivation possible every time he opens his mouth? Several of us have tried to explain to you metaphor and allegory but you're still stuck on the Trump is evil bandwagon.
 
Only in an election cycle otherwise, you are oblivious to the consequences of unrestrained immigration.
I thought congress was working on it now. They cancelled Xmas vacations to try and figure it out. I live in Texas, so I am not oblivious to the consequences.
 
But despite this, I think we have to not be comparing apples with oranges. Trump says they are sending their rapists, and so forth. He is not saying they are sending innocents to then ra** in the US. These are entirely two different things. He is making a point that they are already rapists who are then crossing the border. The previously cited article is comparing domestic crime rates for immigrants, which is not what Trump is talking about.

And let me tell you, some of those countries ... my own (Mexican immigrant) wife says that it seems all you see (mostly anyway) is "el vomito de Mexico" coming up through the border. Her words! Which in a way gives people the wrong impression, but also the correct impression, as it stands

So yeah, what I heard from Trump the other night (and I listened to the whole thing, not just a msnbc soundbite) was simply a man who is angry at unlimited illegal immigration. Well, so am I. Angry might be going a bit far, but extremely concerned.
 
And let me tell you, some of those countries ... my own (Mexican immigrant) wife says that it seems all you see (mostly anyway) is "el vomito de Mexico" coming up through the border. Her words! Which in a way gives people the wrong impression, but also the correct impression, as it stands

So yeah, what I heard from Trump the other night (and I listened to the whole thing, not just a msnbc soundbite) was simply a man who is angry at unlimited illegal immigration. Well, so am I. Angry might be going a bit far, but extremely concerned.
As I have read, the vast majority of the illegle immigrants are not Mexican, but are from South and Central america, and are trying to find a better place to live because where they are from is so hostile. But I agree that we need reform to stem the flow.
 
...I live in Texas, so I am not oblivious to the consequences.
There are going to be consequences at the polls for the reckless democrat behavior regarding the border. Democrats will be trying to distance themselves and try to appear moderate or centrist, but that only works on the RHINOs, it will not work on the public who remember what happened on day one.
 
There are going to be consequences at the polls for the reckless democrat behavior regarding the border. Democrats will be trying to distance themselves and try to appear moderate or centrist, but that only works on the RHINOs, it will not work on the public who remember what happened on day one.
Will there be firing squads?
 
As I have read, the vast majority of the illegle immigrants are not Mexican, but are from South and Central america, and are trying to find a better place to live because where they are from is so hostile. But I agree that we need reform to stem the flow.
We NEED to enforce the EXISTING laws plus the executive orders written by Trump which Biden rescinded on day 1. We don't need new laws that Biden can simply ignore if he doesn't like them. Living in Texas, you really should have a better understanding of what is going on at the border and exactly who is coming in illegally.

You also need to remember that Mexico guards its southern border closely because it does NOT want illegal immigrants from Central America. So before our border became fully open, Mexico's southern border was fully closed. The only way people enter Mexico from the south is because Mexico allows it. They are perfectly willing to send us enough illegal immigrants to destabilize the country and are probably collecting a toll. Mexico would dearly love to reclaim Texas and the other border states. So, practice your Spanish. If this invasion continues, they'll get their wish. Looks like your Governor just signed a bill that makes illegal entry a crime in Texas. Not sure what good that will do if he doesn't have the power to deport them. Just arresting them and filling up Texas jails doesn't seem like much of a plan. But, a lot of legislation is "feel good" rather than practical anyway.

PS, you don't get to break our immigration laws because you don't like the country you live in. Fix your own damn country and stop breaking ours.
 
I was just being snarky, my apologies, but I am not as liberal as you would assume. I used to be a Republican, but I started having my doubts when I watched Carol Rove, and Newty, have an agenda leaning toward one party rule. There was a time when the Right and Left got along, as demonstrated by what was called the Ev and Jerry show, Ill let you look that up. Around the time of the Clinton administration is when things started going of the rails with we vs them. It was Rove, Newt, and Dick Army. As I remeber they were the first to take up the cudgel against "The Other SIde"

I am out for a while. Don't like silos.

Have a nice Xmas
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom