Should taxes be raised on the wealthiest people? (2 Viewers)

[Thales750]

Because as I explained earlier, that makes sense. It doesn't preference the wealthy exclusively like many other types of deductions because middle income people also invest in property and securities. In fact, the best way up in the world is buying a duplex instead of your dream home. So, you live in a less desirable neighborhood in smaller digs but someone else is paying the mortgage and as soon as you have enough for another downpayment, you buy another one. Long term capital gains are taxed at a lower rate because you are mostly taxing inflation which in itself is also a tax. Short term gains (< 1 year holding period) are taxed at ordinary income levels.

So, yes, the more of your income that is capital gains, the lower your effective tax rate. What you do see through from the first chart is that the lighter blue tier is disadvantaged by the current system. They are the group that could be paying less. They are the upper middle class. The well off but not wealthy people.

Other graphics. The numbers may vary slightly depending on the year the graphic was created.
View attachment 115466
View attachment 115467

Are you sure these chart include Capital Gains?

 

[AccessBlaster]

So, you do want me to look back and your home work for you. I'm working now, but I'll get to it.

If you just say yes or no it super fast

 

[pbaldy]

But not as a percentage of their earnings.

Sorry again.

 

[Thales750]

If you just say yes or no it super fast

I absolutely do. But I imagine it has nothing to do with why you think I do. I would say would are going to have a very hard time wrapping your head around it. Having listened to the propaganda for so long.
We'll see. I have been dreaming of this moment for 30 years.

 

[Thales750]

Sorry again.

View attachment 115468

You are leaving out the increase in wealth. Which is not really taxed.

 

[Thales750]

They say they are total income taxes paid. Capital gains is income tax.

Only on realized increases.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I absolutely do. But I imagine it has nothing to do with why you think I do. I would say would are going to have a very hard time wrapping your head around it. Having listened to the propaganda for so long.
We'll see. I have been dreaming of this moment for 30 years.

This is your third non-answer to a direct question, that's called obfuscation. See thread #49 for reference

 

[Thales750]

This is your third non-answer to a direct question, that's called obfuscation. See thread #49 for reference

What does I absolutely do mean?

 

[Isaac]

Middle Class Folks supporting reduced taxes for the top class; is about the same as poor white cotton farmers going to war to support the rich folks right to own slaves

So ask yourself, why do I support it nonetheless? Why would my family grow up poor in a state full of Democrats did we vote Republican? And that's where the issue of principles and philosophies comes in. It would have been better for our bank account to vote Democrat heck it's better for everyone's bank account in the short term but you can only steal other people's money so long

 

[pbaldy]

You are leaving out the increase in wealth. Which is not really taxed.

Your statement related to earnings, and it was false. If you want to make a case for taxing unrealized earnings, then make it clearly.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I don't like talking that way Doc, but you add insults when you refuse see the complete picture.

Statistics published by actual experts tell me your view is incorrect. Should I be insulted because you are using incorrect references to try to confound me? I am not trying to insult you but your comments don't line up with issues that I research in trying to answer you. At the very least this forces me to question your motives for finding or believing in questionable sources for your arguments.

%%title%%

What percentage of startups fail? Here are the main startup failure statistics to understand why startups don't survive.

luisazhou.com

In the above link, insufficient capital accounts for 38% of all startup failures. People were unable to find adequate funding.

What is the #1 reason that startups fail? One simple word: money. An estimated 38% of startups fail because they run out of cash and fail to raise new, necessary capital.

Alarming Decline In Startup Creation Presents Challenges And Opportunities For Entrepreneurs

The steep decline in new startup formation provides opportunities for future entrepreneurs to leverage the unique situation.

news.crunchbase.com

This article includes statistics on USA and Israeli companies.

The number of funding rounds in the U.S. decreased from 8,147 in 2022 to an estimated 6,050 in 2023, representing a decline of approximately 26%. Similarly, Israel saw a decline from 415 funding rounds in 2022 to an estimated 284 in 2023, reflecting a decline of approximately 32%. These chains of events have led to a reduced availability of capital for new startups, hindering their formation and growth.

Startup Funding Why It's So Hard to Raise Money - FasterCapital

Starting a business is risky. There's no two ways about it. But what exactly makes it so risky? And why do so many businesses fail? There are a number of factors that contribute to the high level of risk associated with startup businesses. First and foremost is the fact that most businesses are...

fastercapital.com

The above link discusses the issue of obtaining enough startup capital and how that is becoming more difficult.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/startups-are-dying-amid-drought-in-venture-funding-a9005ad2

If WSJ says there is a drought in venture funding, am I supposed to no believe them?

@Thales750 - I have mostly tried to stay civil, but tossing off a comment about adding insults because I don't see the complete picture? I'm truly sorry you see it that way, but my sources just don't agree with you! What's a guy to do when he hears someone say something that doesn't ring true? YOU are the one who accuses me of being behind the times, yet I have shown you four current or very recent articles on the narrow subject of raising sufficient venture capital for a new small business. Those articles seem to disagree with your position.

 

[Thales750]

Your statement related to earnings, and it was false. If you want to make a case for taxing unrealized earnings, then make it clearly.

I see, semantics are more important then the big picture. I'll try to make it more precise, scoring points like this is so e debate is obviously important.
in the end I will have plenty of supporting evidence that my position is valid.

Add to this, untaxed increases in wealth. You guys are always saying that taxes should not redistribute wealth, but that is exactly what they do. They redistribute it to the very top.

 

[Thales750]

Statistics published by actual experts tell me your view is incorrect. Should I be insulted because you are using incorrect references to try to confound me? I am not trying to insult you but your comments don't line up with issues that I research in trying to answer you. At the very least this forces me to question your motives for finding or believing in questionable sources for your arguments.

%%title%%

What percentage of startups fail? Here are the main startup failure statistics to understand why startups don't survive.

luisazhou.com

In the above link, insufficient capital accounts for 38% of all startup failures. People were unable to find adequate funding.

Alarming Decline In Startup Creation Presents Challenges And Opportunities For Entrepreneurs

The steep decline in new startup formation provides opportunities for future entrepreneurs to leverage the unique situation.

news.crunchbase.com

This article includes statistics on USA and Israeli companies.

Startup Funding Why It's So Hard to Raise Money - FasterCapital

Starting a business is risky. There's no two ways about it. But what exactly makes it so risky? And why do so many businesses fail? There are a number of factors that contribute to the high level of risk associated with startup businesses. First and foremost is the fact that most businesses are...

fastercapital.com

The above link discusses the issue of obtaining enough startup capital and how that is becoming more difficult.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/startups-are-dying-amid-drought-in-venture-funding-a9005ad2

If WSJ says there is a drought in venture funding, am I supposed to no believe them?

@Thales750 - I have mostly tried to stay civil, but tossing off a comment about adding insults because I don't see the complete picture? I'm truly sorry you see it that way, but my sources just don't agree with you! What's a guy to do when he hears someone say something that doesn't ring true? YOU are the one who accuses me of being behind the times, yet I have shown you four current or very recent articles on the narrow subject of raising sufficient venture capital for a new small busiyou think ness. Those articles seem to disagree with your position.

To your first point, you are confusing capilism, with entrepreneurialism. We are not talking about small business, we are talking about the trillions that are controlled by a small group.
Plus, there is plenty of evidence, in small business circles, that supports the theory that too much start up capital can have a negative effect.
Why do think that most people that seek funding get such a small amount from angel investors?

Its an easy answer, it's because most small businesses fail for a variety of personal faiLurs on the founders part.
Let me be clear.
This conversation is not about small businesses, or even midsized businesses it's about a small group of people that controll the majority of the assets in this country, and the world.

In no way does increasing the holding of those folks make this a better county or provide more opportunity for small businesses.

 

[Thales750]

Why do you think that the world's most successful investor believes in the ultra rich paying more taxes?
And how do you feel about Gates buying up all that farm land?

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Increase in wealth? Interest, capital gains, passive and non passive income are taxed. What is it that you do? This year I retired from income tax preparation. I'm experienced in federal and about a dozen states.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

To your first point, you are confusing capilism, with entrepreneurialism.

And YOU are deliberately evading my comments, trying to obfuscate the issue because you can't call a spade a spade. To do so would undermine your arguments. I'm done with you because we don't even speak the same language and I don't see this as a useful discussion because of that language problem. You are like the Red Queen from Wonderland, where for you, words are merely like subjects that MUST mean what you say they mean, even if dictionaries might disagree.

 

[AccessBlaster]

This thread should have been titled "Capitalism vs Socialism" or " Constitutional Federal Republic vs Democracy".

 

[Thales750]

This thread should have been titled "Capitalism vs Socialism" or " Constitutional Federal Republic vs Democracy".

Nope. Only your extream right wind blinders make you see it that way.

And YOU are deliberately evading my comments, trying to obfuscate the issue because you can't call a spade a spade. To do so would undermine your arguments. I'm done with you because we don't even speak the same language and I don't see this as a useful discussion because of that language problem. You are like the Red Queen from Wonderland, where for you, words are merely like subjects that MUST mean what you say they mean, even if dictionaries might disagree.

you are absolutely choosing to not get my points, and then you are blaming me for it. You literally brought up startups which have absolutely nothing to do with how much or how we should tax certain aspects of our society. You, along with most of the others in these discussion merely come her to have one more avenue cognitive ease.

You only seek out information that supports your political ideology and your world views, and you reject any deviation from them and you think that a chart that says that 38% of starts up fail because of lack of funding. I have been employed a total of 7 years since 1983. The rest of the time I spend selling to companies. all that while you were working for the Navy, (thank you for that) or otherwise insulated form the real world of entrepreneurs.

I started calling on businesses in 1980. My whole life has been mostly doing work for businesses. I know a thing or to about this. The reason most small businesses cant get funding is because they don't have a good plan, they are not charismatic enough, are they don't understand the fundamental job of running a small business.

Huge amounts of capital all held by the largest financial institutes and their influence in congress is the biggest obstacle to a thriving small business economy. Paid for with lowered taxes on those institutions and investment funds.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

You literally brought up startups which have absolutely nothing to do with how much or how we should tax certain aspects of our society.

Except that when taxes get too high, investment funding gets hit.

you are absolutely choosing to not get my points

No. DON'T confuse "choosing to not get your points" with "vehemently disagreeing with your points." Those two are DIFFERENT. By saying "Choosing not to GET your points" you are impugning MY intelligence. STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. "Getting" and "agreeing with" are VASTLY DIFFERENT. And if YOU don't understand that, then the problem isn't with me.

 

[Thales750]

Except that when taxes get too high, investment funding gets hit.


No. DON'T confuse "choosing to not get your points" with "vehemently disagreeing with your points." Those two are DIFFERENT. By saying "Choosing not to GET your points" you are impugning MY intelligence. STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. "Getting" and "agreeing with" are VASTLY DIFFERENT. And if YOU don't understand that, then the problem isn't with me.

You're saying that lowered taxes on the rich makes more funds availible for small business start ups?