Terminal Server and FE/BE Configuration

[Dudley]

I've been reading the forum's history of posts about running Access db's in a Terminal Server/Services environment. I have a client who is looking to implement my FE/BE db in such a multi-user context and I'm worried about data integrity.

I've advised them of my concerns and they had the following discussion:

I don’t know the answer to this question. This database has a Front End and a Back End. Each user is logged in to Terminal Server with 2x pointing to one Front End of the database. Do I have a problem? Should I Create multiple copies of the Front End and place each in a different folder? Then point only one user to each Front End? Is this really a problem?

I think your fine. I think windows does this automatically since the users are logging into 2x using their own unique user profiles. I don’t think this is any different than putting the database on a network drive and giving multiple users a shortcut to it. Each user has their own unique thread or connection to the database.
I’m not exactly sure of the scenario she’s trying to avoid, but I wonder if she’s referring to multiple users sharing one login or something?

According to the database programmers on our staff. Even though each user is pointing to the same computer Front End object, Windows takes care of giving each user a unique thread or path to the database because each person is logged in to the Terminal Server on a unique session. I think we are OK. If you need me to test it. Let me know what you would like me to do.

Reading the forum, I think they're mistaken, but not fully understanding it, I'm not sure. Can someone please help me out here? Can anyone confirm my belief and perhaps suggest a way to test they're configuration and confirm that it is not safe for the integrity of the data?

 

[pbaldy]

Each user should have their own copy of the front end. While theoretically they would be kept separate when running the same copy, it doesn't actually work out that way (voice of experience, backed up by research). I had twitchy little problems until I gave each user their own copy.

 

[Banana]

While I don't have a direct answer, I just want to address this statement:

I don’t think this is any different than putting the database on a network drive and giving multiple users a shortcut to it

If that is the difference, then it's flawed because the question is not about giving a shortcut but an actual copy of the front-end client. All a shortcut can do is point toward an actual file, and if each had their own shortcut pointing to the same front-end, they're still risking the corruption because more than one user is using the same file. So, a short-cut is not sufficient in that situation.

 

[RuralGuy]

Another issue is the EULA. When I investigated this a while ago, it appeard that each user using th TS need their own Access license to use the system. They do not need a copy of Access to run the application with TS but they still needed an Access License to satisfy the EULA. BTW, the system you are suggesting is really the *only* way to run an application using the internet and get satisfactory performance.

 

[Dudley]

Thank you, Paul, RG, and Banana. I'm really grateful for your replies.

One more question: Are there recommended ways to code and organize a FE/BE db to run well in the TS environment? I hate to undertake another round of development, but this is the second installation of my system using TS in a month and so maybe I need to dig into it. Do you have favorite references?

 

[gemma-the-husky]

we do this with each users login script taking him to his own folder which has his own copy of the dbs - as our system makes temporary tables inside the dbs (among other things) i would HATE to have multiple users sharing the same dbs.

the client's network support managers deal with licensing, and i am not 100% sure about this.

the catch with using a TS is that the TS can't necessarily "see" your local drives and printers and therefore getting stiff OFF the TS may need some attention/advice (not necessarily from here - its a network thing)

 

[Simon_MT]

Having used TS, the licensing is handled by CALs, Client Access Licenses, I believe 5 are provided with the initial Terminal Server. The remote desktop should map the local printers although the driver may need to loaded on the Terminal Server.

Mapping local drives is possible but I remember seeing a security issue, I think mainly that the server side is generally more secure and remote users with less security were being exploited. Local drives are (tediuously) slow but it is an option.

I agree with the above, each user must have their own version of the FE preferrablly an MDE and contained within each users profile. This is enable each user exporting information without overwriting someone else's info.

Personally, the Terminal Server should provide all the applications and facilities your users require, other than web access as the Terminal Server session access is bi-directional and hence a lot slower.

User's must be disciplined to close all applications and finally the logoff their TS session.

Simon

 

[brickelldb]

With access runtime installed on the Term Serv...

Would putting an actual physical copy of the FE in each user profile's directory and then storing the BE on the same Term Serv computer where everyone is logging into be the appropriate way of doing this? (using group policy to lock down the users from being able to access my computer or run or program files, etc)

 

[pbaldy]

I see no issues with that, as long as the BE gets backed up.

 

[brickelldb]

hey, thanks for the reply.

 

[SikSlk]

Sorry to drag out of the ancient history channel.

But for the past 4 years we have been using 2003 version with next to no issues (other then my code) on Terminal Services (Windows Server 2003 enterprise x64). As I type this there is currently 20 people using the program, granted not the same forms but still this can go from 20 to 30 people at any one time all day long.

We have a public Back End (a couple actually for holding different unrelated data for different sections of the program) and a separate copy of the Front End in each of the users documents folder then a simple shortcut on their desktop.

I have a master file which each users copy checks against using the update method (found on this site) which auto updates their copy when a new version is available.

Again, sorry to bring it back from the dead but just wanted to add a +1 to the possibility pile. I have been given alot of flack and heard alot of negative things about access but so far there hasn't been a road block stopping us from using it (other then my intelligence).

Cheers, and good luck

edit: Forgot to mention... last time I looked at updating to access 07 I was told that 03 and before don't require a license per user but 07 does?

 

[RuralGuy]

edit: Forgot to mention... last time I looked at updating to access 07 I was told that 03 and before don't require a license per user but 07 does?

You might want to double check this information. I believe *all* versions require as Access license per user.

 

[Banana]

I agree with RuralGuy and would add one more point- with 2007, it is now possible just to buy one license, then use Runtime to distribute to other users as with 2007 Runtime version it's free to download & distribute whereas earlier version required you buy Office Development extensions to get license to Runtime version. So in *indirect* sense, 2007 allows you to buy one license for several users.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

to take sikslk's point about reliability of access ...

no IT department would question the use of excel, word or powerpoint

so why question the use of access?

... because it smacks of programming, intrinsically its multi-user, not single user and it needs slightly more care. indeed it is certainly easy to mess up big time with access.

but as long as you are careful, and verify your inputs and outputs, (GIGO - garbage in - garbage out) access is an incredibly useful and powerful tool

 

[Banana]

^ Agreed.

But it can be easily countered- one can just program as much in Excel and Word. They have UserForms, macros, VBA and basically everything that they could could use to mess up big time just as equally.

Two words: Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Simon_MT]

On the license front, I have always thought that the CAL's legitimise the Office Applications licenses. The TS is only running one version of Access, but many instances of a database.

The supplier of the servers is very particular about licensing, I had to have all licenses on the servers absolutely fully accounted for.

Simon

 

[brickelldb]

I would think run-time would allow you to use access apps without needing any additional licencing. Isn't that what run-time is for? Kind of like the powerpoint viewer............