The Qur'an

[aziz rasul]

God can use any human being now or in the past ...

Yes, they were called Prophets and some of these were also at a higher rank and called Messengers e.g., Ibrahim, Ismail, Musa, Dawood, Isa and Muhammad (peace be upon them).

And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him (MUHAMMAD) that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship Me."
Qur'an 21:25

84. We gave him (ABRAHAM) ISAAC and JACOB: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided NOAH, and among his progeny, DAVID, SOLOMON, JOB, JOSEPH, MOSES, and AARON: thus do We reward those who do good:
85. And ZAKARIYA and JOHN, and JESUS and ELIAS: all in the ranks of the righteous:
86. And ISMA'IL and ELISHA, and JONAS, and LOT: and to all We gave favour above the nations:
87. (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.
88. This is the guidance of Allaah: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.
Qur'an 6:84-88

And no mere prophet has the ability to forgive sins.

We all have the power to forgive, not just all the Prophets and God Himself.

Allaah accepts the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allaah turn in mercy: For Allaah is full of knowledge and wisdom. Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
Qur'an 4:17

If ye reject (Allaah), truly Allaah hath no need of you; but He liketh not ingratitude from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your Return, when He will tell you the truth of all that ye did (in this life). For He knoweth well all that is in (men's) hearts.
Qur'an 39:7

“But if you pardon and overlook and forgive - then indeed, Allaah is Forgiving and Merciful”
Qur'an 64:14

No prophet other than Jesus was called the Son of God ...

See Matthew 5:9, Luke 3:38, Exodus 4:22, 2 Samuel 7:13-14, Jeremiah 31:9, Psalms 2:7, John 1:12 Romans 8:14, etc. etc.
Also he didn't declare himself to be a "begotten" son of God. In fact the word "begotten" doesn't even appear in the 4 out of the original 79 Gospels that were added to the Bible.

The heavenly sacrifice isn't good enough for you ...

157. And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allaah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no
knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
158. But Allaah took him up unto Himself. Allaah was ever Mighty, Wise.
Qur'an 4:157-158

Mark 16:19 are NOT the words of Jesus but the words that were not given by God.

Walking in the light

[This is] a Book which We have revealed to you [O Prophet] so that you may lead people out of darkness and into light, by the Will of their Lord, to the Path of the Almighty, the Praiseworthy—
Qur’an – Surah Ibrahim 14:1

Given the way that Muslims treat Christians...

Given the way that Christians treat Muslims.

So you actually believe a man built a ship and kept two of every animal on it for forty days while the whole planet was covered with water that came from nowhere then somehow mysteriously drained away.

That's not what actually happened. Only local animals were placed on the ship and only the local area was flooded. The whole point was to destroy the local disbelievers, not the whole world.

 

[conception_native_0123]

We all have the power to forgive

didn't you just contradict yourself?

 

[aziz rasul]

Huh?

 

[aziz rasul]

I heard the Messenger of Allaah (ﷺ) say: Allaah the Almighty said: O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it.
It was related by at-Tirmidhi (also by Ahmad ibn Hanbal). Its chain of authorities is sound.

The only sin that God will not forgive is that of someone rejecting God knowing He exists and dies in that state. All other sins are forgivable just as we can forgive each other for any faults we make against each other.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The biggest problem with the flood is that it is a cyclic legend - in that it recycles every so often. The first time on record was in the time of Gilgamesh, but there are Nordic legends telling of the flood as well. Legends that pre-date the Bible. And in this case I'm not talking the Bible of the Council of Nicea but the Bible from the earliest scrolls and writings. The flood story is OLDER than the time of Noah if you use Bishop Ussher's chronology. Which makes it kind of awkward.

 

[Isaac]

You chose to believe that rubbish because it suits your prejudices. Common sense tells us that it is impossible to flood the whole planet. There are dozens of anomalies in the story.

Were there kangaroos, koalas and wombats on the Ark? How did they get all the way from Australia to the middle east?

So nobody else had any boats?

The number of people on board could not have managed the dung from all the animals let alone feeding them.

Belief in this kind of nonsense is a definite mark of stupidity regardless of how many others share those beliefs. People can hold stupid beliefs yet be competent in other areas.

Thanks, Galaxiom. I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man, than a fool in the eyes of God ... Fool's gold.
In the words of Petra

 

[Isaac]

The biggest problem with the flood is that it is a cyclic legend - in that it recycles every so often. The first time on record was in the time of Gilgamesh, but there are Nordic legends telling of the flood as well. Legends that pre-date the Bible. And in this case I'm not talking the Bible of the Council of Nicea but the Bible from the earliest scrolls and writings. The flood story is OLDER than the time of Noah if you use Bishop Ussher's chronology. Which makes it kind of awkward.

I'm not seeing how that weakens the story, rather strengthens it.

 

[Isaac]

And you believe this because some ancient ignorant misogynists passed the story down orally until someone wrote it down.


There is zero geological evidence that the crust was different back then. The geological history over billions of years has been determined and it does not match with your delusional assertion at all.


What an idiotic claim.



You use past tense in this statement implying that god has already revealed himself to the rest of the world. Funny that nobody noticed then.

Have you ever considered the the "The Chosen Race" and "The Promised Land" are remarkably similar concepts to "The Master Race" and "The Father Land"? The similarities don't stop there. Both the Hebrews and the Germans perpetrated mass genocides.

Sounds like you are getting angry. I have to warn you, I'm not real interested in whether I am considered 'smart' or 'stupid'.
I'm quite fine being stupid in the eyes of a particular person. The important thing is to submit to God - dumb, stupid, or smart.

Pride is not one of my vices, at least not very much, thankfully, as my signature and decorum have steadfastly proclaimed for years now on AWF.

You'll have to try an angle of attack in some other vein to rile me

Hope you have a better rest of the week!

Isaac

 

[Mike Krailo]

There is zero geological evidence that the crust was different back then. The geological history over billions of years has been determined and it does not match with your delusional assertion at all.

It's a far cry from zero, but you have already asserted your historical belief as superior to others which must be true because you have asserted to be so. I don't want to get too deep into the archeologists views on this as we would be getting into that particular study and I don't have the time to go deep down that rabbit hole. But there is very good evidence of a world wide flood based on a very flat layer that has no erosion in it. This evidence shows up all over the globe in different countries. Some try and ascribe a long period of time between these layers which doesn't make any sense since time always shows evidence of erosion in the surface for long periods of time. That's just a fact known by any competent archeologist.

157. And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allaah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no
knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

This is clearly written by a Muslim and not of God's spirit. This breaks the commandment about bearing false witness. Why do Muslims persecute him and even write the lie in their scriptures? The roman's never pretended to crucify anyone, even they knew that Jesus was crucified on the cross to death. It was the most severe penalty anyone could ever receive due to the painful nature of this type of death. To be crucified is not to be hung up on display for while and let down alive. There is no evidence of that at all occurring, but because this false statement is written in your book, you look no further. It's a very strange thing to say that Roman crucifixion is only pretend crucifixion for this one person only. Even their own historians confirm that Jesus got the most severe penalty available at the time.

By their fruits, you shall know who they are.

Quote from Cornelius Tacitus (historian 56-120 AD)

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

Quote from Mara Bar-Serapion (Syrian Philosopher 70 AD)

"What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgement for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king? …After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men… The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted."

Quote by Phlegon (80-140 AD quote by Origen)

"Now Phlegon, in the thirteenth or fourteenth book, I think, of his Chronicles, not only ascribed to Jesus a knowledge of future events …but also testified that the result corresponded to His predictions."

"Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails."

The only sin that God will not forgive is that of someone rejecting God knowing He exists and dies in that state. All other sins are forgivable just as we can forgive each other for any faults we make against each other.

Surely you are aware that in the old testament, the Jews were commanded by God to built a tabernacle and with it very specific dimensions and instructions for how they were to make burnt offerings to God for the forgiveness of sins. Blood sacrifice was required. Not simply asking God for forgiveness. I would say that is a very big part of what we learn in the old testament, that blood must be shed for the remission of sins. God made that very clear if you cared enough to read it and learn from it.

From God through Moses:

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.”

All of this was leading up to the big moment when Jesus appeared on the scene and was declared by God himself as his Son whom he loved and was well pleased, to be sacrificed for the sins of the world. When he rose from the dead, this was the point that animal sacrifices were no longer necessary for the atonement of sin because of God's gift to us all has been given in his son (It is finished). Of course we have to recognize that gift has been given. If not, you would still be offering animal sacrifices on the alter as was done in the old testament period of time. There is no question about this Aziz. None whatsoever, there must be a blood atonement. You cannot just ask for God's forgiveness like you would another person. You are very religious in your beliefs, but God made it very clear how much he hated outward religiousness in persons. The world see's what Muslims do, but God see's what you do in private and knows you heart. I'm not judging you, just rebuking you for claiming that you can simply ask God for forgiveness without any atonement for the sins that you have committed. As a Christian, you would have Christ Jesus to be your atonement, without him, you just have your unatoned sin that you think will just be forgiven just because you acknowledge him as God. Really? Even demons and fallen angels know that he is God.

 

[Isaac]

It's a far cry from zero, but you have already asserted your historical belief as superior to others which must be true because you have asserted to be so. I don't want to get too deep into the archeologists views on this as we would be getting into that particular study and I don't have the time to go deep down that rabbit hole. But there is very good evidence of a world wide flood based on a very flat layer that has no erosion in it. This evidence shows up all over the globe in different countries. Some try and ascribe a long period of time between these layers which doesn't make any sense since time always shows evidence of erosion in the surface for long periods of time. That's just a fact known by any competent archeologist

and there is a lot of evidence that something that evolutionists always said was impossible (a canyon being made in a very brief period of time, not millions of yearse), is indeed very possible, and has happened several times in modern history - but that is conveniently ignored by evolutionists, who look instead for things to support their "billions and billions of years" theories, in which anything seems possible because of course, it's billions of years. Too convenient.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I'm not seeing how that weakens the story, rather strengthens it.

The story? Has no effect one way or the other. But it demonstrates the derivative nature of the Bible, just as the story of Horus (Egyptian mythos) is an earlier parallel of Jesus. The Bible is nothing more than a retelling of old myths.

 

[aziz rasul]

This is clearly written by a Muslim ...

This is clearly given by God via the Holy Spirit (angel Gabriel) just as the Torah and Injil were given to Moses and Jesus respectively. The main message of the Qur'an is consistent with the SAME message (submission to the will of God alone in His Oneness ) of ALL the Prophets including Jesus (peace be upon them). Anything else is blasphemy as the Christians and Hindus practice by associated partners with God and will end up in HELLFIRE if they die in such a belief.

“Father, if you are WILLING, REMOVE this cup from me; yet, NOT MY WILL but YOURS be done.”
Luke 22:42

Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray
[in violation] against it. And I am not over you a manager."
Qur'an 10:108

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Qur'an al Kafirun 109:1-6

Surely you are aware ...

According to the Bible and the Qur'an, everyone pays for their own sins and hence NO blood sacrifice is required, of that I am 100% sure. Any Biblical verse that says otherwise, then you have a contradiction.

All of this was leading up to the big...

In Islam, we can ask for forgiveness.

Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allaah. Indeed, Allaah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Qur’an - 39:53

And to Allaah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. And ever is Allaah Forgiving and Merciful.
Qur’an - 48:14

And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And if a heavily laden soul calls [another] to [carry some of] its load, nothing of it will be carried, even if he should be a close relative. You can only warn those who fear their Lord unseen and have established prayer. And whoever purifies himself only purifies himself for [the benefit of] his soul. And to Allaah is the [final] destination.
Qur’an - Surah Fatir (The Creator) 35:18

and there is a lot of evidence ...

15. “O mankind! You are the ones who are in need of Allaah. And Allaah! He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.
16. If He wanted, he could destroy you and bring about a new creation.
17. And that is not hard for Allaah.”
Qur’an - Surah Faatir (The Originator) 35:15-17 See also 30:27 and 14:19-20.

7. (God) is the One who created you, then fashioned you harmoniously and in due proportion;
8. Into whatsoever form He willed, He made you out of components.
Qur’an - Surah al-Infitaar (The Believers) 82:7-8 See also 56:57-62, 71:14, 87:2.

 

[Isaac]

The story? Has no effect one way or the other. But it demonstrates the derivative nature of the Bible, just as the story of Horus (Egyptian mythos) is an earlier parallel of Jesus. The Bible is nothing more than a retelling of old myths.

What I meant was isn't it interesting that in any other context of discussion, you would find that corroboration, rather than derivation?

 

[Isaac]

This is clearly given by God via the Holy Spirit (angel Gabriel) just as the Torah and Injil were given to Moses and Jesus respectively. The main message of the Qur'an is consistent with the SAME message (submission to the will of God alone in His Oneness ) of ALL the Prophets including Jesus (peace be upon them). Anything else is blasphemy as the Christians and Hindus practice by associated partners with God and will end up in HELLFIRE if they die in such a belief.

“Father, if you are WILLING, REMOVE this cup from me; yet, NOT MY WILL but YOURS be done.”
Luke 22:42

Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray
[in violation] against it. And I am not over you a manager."
Qur'an 10:108

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Qur'an al Kafirun 109:1-6



According to the Bible and the Qur'an, everyone pays for their own sins and hence NO blood sacrifice is required, of that I am 100% sure. Any Biblical verse that says otherwise, then you have a contradiction.



In Islam, we can ask for forgiveness.

Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allaah. Indeed, Allaah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Qur’an - 39:53

And to Allaah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. And ever is Allaah Forgiving and Merciful.
Qur’an - 48:14

And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And if a heavily laden soul calls [another] to [carry some of] its load, nothing of it will be carried, even if he should be a close relative. You can only warn those who fear their Lord unseen and have established prayer. And whoever purifies himself only purifies himself for [the benefit of] his soul. And to Allaah is the [final] destination.
Qur’an - Surah Fatir (The Creator) 35:18



15. “O mankind! You are the ones who are in need of Allaah. And Allaah! He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.
16. If He wanted, he could destroy you and bring about a new creation.
17. And that is not hard for Allaah.”
Qur’an - Surah Faatir (The Originator) 35:15-17 See also 30:27 and 14:19-20.

7. (God) is the One who created you, then fashioned you harmoniously and in due proportion;
8. Into whatsoever form He willed, He made you out of components.
Qur’an - Surah al-Infitaar (The Believers) 82:7-8 See also 56:57-62, 71:14, 87:2.

I believe you and I may be in heaven together, both of us praising God for His mercy

 

[The_Doc_Man]

What I meant was isn't it interesting that in any other context of discussion, you would find that corroboration, rather than derivation?

With no disrespect intended, Isaac, I believe that is putting words in my mouth that I didn't and wouldn't say. Knowing that the myth is common to many cultures, but also knowing how primitive Man tended to exaggerate stories for dramatic effect, I might be skeptical. I've seen the actual fish that my dad caught and I've heard his fish stories. I know that Man sometimes exaggerates.

Given some of the stories that Man has told, I better understand Mark Twain's comment: Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to.

 

[conception_native_0123]

I believe you and I may be in heaven together

no one goes to the father except through the son.

 

[Isaac]

no one goes to the father except through the son.

God rewards those who diligently seek him

 

[aziz rasul]

no one goes to the father except through the son.

No one gets to Heaven unless they SUBMIT (as all the Prophets did) to God alone without any divisions\parts\partners and leave this world in this state.

285. The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allaah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."
286. Allaah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."
Qur'an 2:285-6

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Repetitious and derivative.

 

[aziz rasul]

6. Indeed, those who DISBELIEVE - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will NOT believe.
7. Allaah has set a SEAL upon their HEARTS and upon their HEARING and over their VISION is a veil. And for them is a great PUNISHMENT.
Qur'an 2:6-7

6. For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such), Destination.
7. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth,
8. Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"
9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a Warner did come to us, but we rejected him and said, 'Allaah never sent down any (Message): ye are nothing but an egregious delusion!'"
10. They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!"
11. They will then confess their sins: but far will be (Forgiveness) from the Companions of the Blazing Fire!
12. As for those who fear their Lord unseen, for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward.
13. And whether ye hide your word or publish it, He certainly has (full) knowledge, of the secrets of (all) hearts.
14. Should He not know,- He that created? and He is the One that understands the finest mysteries (and) is well-acquainted (with them).
Qur’an - Surah al-Mulk (The Sovereignty) 671:6-14

Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by God. Such creation of God will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
Qur'an 30:30