United States collapses (1 Viewer)

[ajetrumpet]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

This article goes to the extreme I think about what might happen, but I agree with this professor's view in that the United States is getting to the breaking point. Once we are there, bad things will happen, weather its war, stock market depression, unemployment spikes or whatever.

I totally blame the "propping up" of a bad situation by the government. Everyday the government gets worse with their ability to put a smiley face on a situation that needs a good fixing, but instead of taking a chance of losing an election and giving the public just a LITTLE bit of truth about the country's status, they constantly choose to say everything's fine, don't worry! How much longer can this go on folks???? Not much longer, I assure you.

It doesn't matter how we got here, but it does matter who will be the first first lier in Washington to finally say, "OK, enough is enough". Well there hasn't been one yet, and who knows if there ever will be.

All presidents and leaders have had a hand in this downturn stuff, but I can't think of anyone better than Obama to use as an example here. There has never been anyone better than Obama that could use inspiration like he does to get what they want. He can make people feel so good, that they can't resist the temptation to say "I believe him!". Lets not forget peoples' ability to be pathetically gullible, and as this gets worse in people, government has more and more incentive to pull curtains down over situations that need attention.

I don't remember everything, and like everyone else, I live for the moment and don't really care about the past, so like most people, I would say that the leaders of NOW are completely responsible for whatever happens to the country. As a president of the United States, a person should be smart enough to know what problems are out there, what problems are being caused by the predecessor and plan for it. This obviously doesn't happen, but it SHOULD.

As far as our situation in this country, lets look at what the president and his posse are doing to address it:


The war:
what did we hear last year? - "I will bring troops home within 1 year (or whatever it was)"
why? - Obama wanted the power of the presidency
what happened? - more troops were sent to the war
why? - Obama realized that war aint so simple!

The tax:
what did we hear last year? - "I won't raise taxes on homes with less than $250K of income"
why? - the majority of voters earn this amount. make them like you so they will give you the power to rule
what happened? - Obama says he's "agnostic" and that all possibilities for reducing the deficit should be considered
why? - he mismanaged money during his first year at the expense of taxpayer income. this was OK until he realized that the money spent wasn't a grant from GOD.

The market:
what happened to the stock market a year ago? - it dropped significantly which is what it should have done!
why? - economic conditions called for it
what happened as a result? - the government folk tell Warren Buffet to make a TV appearance and tell the public that everything is fine and dandy so they will invest their money again and prevent a severe market crash.
why? - because they're too damn lazy to fix the problem, so they recruit someone who is famous for making good decisions to help prop the situation up and make the HOPE last even longer. and lets not forget the desire to string people along until the next election passes...


I find it very disheartening that the government is continuing to paint a pretty picture for those who do not have the ability to know the difference. But yet, all signs are pointing to the facts. People have less and less money, the standard of living is going down, unemployment is high, etc, etc...


The government should NEVER call upon its people to fix the problems that it is responsible for. The people CAN'T do it! they don't set the rules, much less understand them. I am waiting for the day when SOMEONE in washington finally says enough is enough! Until that day comes, it is only a matter of time before the country falls apart and the true situation here is revealed. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the leader of this country when that day comes. Isn't there any foresight out there anymore!? Or is everyone in washington just too concerned about keeping their jobs until EVERYONE loses theirs? The answer is out there, but it surely won't be found in any government building.

 

[statsman]

Governments are the last ones to depend upon to make a bad situation good.

They are quite adept at making a bad situation worse.

 

[laxster]

It's disturbing that so much power has rolled up the federal ladder of power. Most of the laws we have on the books at the federal are unconstitional per the 10th Amendment.

 

[chergh]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

This article goes to the extreme I think about what might happen, but I agree with this professor's view in that the United States is getting to the breaking point. Once we are there, bad things will happen, weather its war, stock market depression, unemployment spikes or whatever.

I totally blame the "propping up" of a bad situation by the government. Everyday the government gets worse with their ability to put a smiley face on a situation that needs a good fixing, but instead of taking a chance of losing an election and giving the public just a LITTLE bit of truth about the country's status, they constantly choose to say everything's fine, don't worry! How much longer can this go on folks???? Not much longer, I assure you.

It doesn't matter how we got here, but it does matter who will be the first first lier in Washington to finally say, "OK, enough is enough". Well there hasn't been one yet, and who knows if there ever will be.

All presidents and leaders have had a hand in this downturn stuff, but I can't think of anyone better than Obama to use as an example here. There has never been anyone better than Obama that could use inspiration like he does to get what they want. He can make people feel so good, that they can't resist the temptation to say "I believe him!". Lets not forget peoples' ability to be pathetically gullible, and as this gets worse in people, government has more and more incentive to pull curtains down over situations that need attention.

I don't remember everything, and like everyone else, I live for the moment and don't really care about the past, so like most people, I would say that the leaders of NOW are completely responsible for whatever happens to the country. As a president of the United States, a person should be smart enough to know what problems are out there, what problems are being caused by the predecessor and plan for it. This obviously doesn't happen, but it SHOULD.

As far as our situation in this country, lets look at what the president and his posse are doing to address it:


The war:
what did we hear last year? - "I will bring troops home within 1 year (or whatever it was)"
why? - Obama wanted the power of the presidency
what happened? - more troops were sent to the war
why? - Obama realized that war aint so simple!

The tax:
what did we hear last year? - "I won't raise taxes on homes with less than $250K of income"
why? - the majority of voters earn this amount. make them like you so they will give you the power to rule
what happened? - Obama says he's "agnostic" and that all possibilities for reducing the deficit should be considered
why? - he mismanaged money during his first year at the expense of taxpayer income. this was OK until he realized that the money spent wasn't a grant from GOD.

The market:
what happened to the stock market a year ago? - it dropped significantly which is what it should have done!
why? - economic conditions called for it
what happened as a result? - the government folk tell Warren Buffet to make a TV appearance and tell the public that everything is fine and dandy so they will invest their money again and prevent a severe market crash.
why? - because they're too damn lazy to fix the problem, so they recruit someone who is famous for making good decisions to help prop the situation up and make the HOPE last even longer. and lets not forget the desire to string people along until the next election passes...


I find it very disheartening that the government is continuing to paint a pretty picture for those who do not have the ability to know the difference. But yet, all signs are pointing to the facts. People have less and less money, the standard of living is going down, unemployment is high, etc, etc...


The government should NEVER call upon its people to fix the problems that it is responsible for. The people CAN'T do it! they don't set the rules, much less understand them. I am waiting for the day when SOMEONE in washington finally says enough is enough! Until that day comes, it is only a matter of time before the country falls apart and the true situation here is revealed. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the leader of this country when that day comes. Isn't there any foresight out there anymore!? Or is everyone in washington just too concerned about keeping their jobs until EVERYONE loses theirs? The answer is out there, but it surely won't be found in any government building.

lol.........

 

[Steve R.]

It's disturbing that so much power has rolled up the federal ladder of power. Most of the laws we have on the books at the federal are unconstitional per the 10th Amendment.

The problem ironically, is that everyone, even the anti-government types, seem to want the Federal government to solve all their problems.

Hurricane Katrina is an example. FEMA gets lambasted for not acting fast enough. Now I am not defending FEMA, but the problem is that the City of New Orleans failed to act, then the State of Louisiana failed to respond. So who gets the blame, the Federal government. Then we have camera loving politicians proposing new Federal programs. It should be up to the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana to fix their emergency response system.

On the US financial crises FOX News incessantly whines on how government involvement breaks everything. But when it comes to Federal subsidies and tax breaks, and tax credits they are all for it. Well if you don't want Federal involvement, then you had better be against Federal handouts!!!!!

The New York Times ran a special on education. One of the pseudo-pundits wrote about how we need to fund education for all. She noted that the State's were broke, therefore the Federal government should help. Well, despite her supposed educational credentials she must not be aware that the Federal government is broke too. Once again we have a member of the populace who seems to believe that the Federal government is the tooth fairy solving all our problems.

Well, the Russian's may be having the last laugh. Reagan promised to bankrupt the Russians, instead we are bankrupting ourselves.

(PS: Reagan, as far as I am concerned, started us down this path with Reaganomics; perpetual deficit spending.)

 

[SOS]

(PS: Reagan, as far as I am concerned, started us down this path with Reaganomics; perpetual deficit spending.)

No, it really started earlier than that. You can make a case for the New Deal (Franklin D. Roosevelt) era - where deficit spending increased to generate jobs and government projects so as to stimulate the economy.

 

[SOS]

And you probably can even find earlier examples...

 

[statsman]

The problem ironically, is that everyone, even the anti-government types, seem to want the Federal government to solve all their problems.

Hurricane Katrina is an example. FEMA gets lambasted for not acting fast enough. Now I am not defending FEMA, but the problem is that the City of New Orleans failed to act, then the State of Louisiana failed to respond. So who gets the blame, the Federal government. Then we have camera loving politicians proposing new Federal programs. It should be up to the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana to fix their emergency response system.

On the US financial crises FOX News incessantly whines on how government involvement breaks everything. But when it comes to Federal subsidies and tax breaks, and tax credits they are all for it. Well if you don't want Federal involvement, then you had better be against Federal handouts!!!!!

The New York Times ran a special on education. One of the pseudo-pundits wrote about how we need to fund education for all. She noted that the State's were broke, therefore the Federal government should help. Well, despite her supposed educational credentials she must not be aware that the Federal government is broke too. Once again we have a member of the populace who seems to believe that the Federal government is the tooth fairy solving all our problems.

Well, the Russian's may be having the last laugh. Reagan promised to bankrupt the Russians, instead we are bankrupting ourselves.

(PS: Reagan, as far as I am concerned, started us down this path with Reaganomics; perpetual deficit spending.)

What most Americans don't understand is that Republicans and the right wing are not against welfare.

What they oppose is welfare that does not include the rich.

When the US economy went south, Republicans were all for bailing out the banks and the brokers so that they could get their money back. They were against bailing out people who had lost less than a million dollars and against giving money to people who might starve to death.

 

[ajetrumpet]

lol.........

obviously a fan of mine. did I at least entertain you chergh? that's really all it's meant to do. it's kinda like the WWE, although it doesn't make as much sense...

 

[ajetrumpet]

It's disturbing that so much power has rolled up the federal ladder of power. Most of the laws we have on the books at the federal are unconstitional per the 10th Amendment.

unfortunately yes laxster. I think you're right. I'll tell ya something that's good that comes out of it though, is the increase in the government job market. And what's even better? If you can't get a gov. job, you can survive on government handout programs as a secondary alternative. In the words of chergh, "LOL"...

 

[chergh]

did I at least entertain you chergh? .

Your ignorance did.

 

[Steve R.]

What most Americans don't understand is that Republicans and the right wing are not against welfare.

What they oppose is welfare that does not include the rich.

Quite true. While it is the Democrats who are currently in control; as I drove into work I heard that Biden would be in State to "congratulate" a company that would be receiving tax credits (welfare) to create jobs.

A few years ago Maytag (the appliance manufacturer) received tax breaks to construct a new facility in a location that I can't remember. Well the tax breaks ran out. Maytag immediately closed the plant and put the employees out of work!

In the Kelo case, a local government used its power of eminent domain to acquire land for a new private facility. Well, the company behind the proposed facility, Pfizer, had a change of heart and abandoned the project. Now the City of New London, at taxpayer expense, is the proud owner of a large vacant lot.

With all these subsidy (welfare) programs, it astounds me that we can even call ourselves a "free-market" system. Not only that, but we huff and puff with indignation, when other countries, such as China, subsidize their companies.

What is also interesting with this jobs debate, the politicians (even the Republicans) loudly spin how we need to retain jobs in the US and the government can "help". But what are our supposedly loyal companies actually doing, they are silently shipping the jobs overseas! Furthermore, exactly how are we to retain these jobs in the US? Ah yes, the yea olde subsidy (welfare) programs that the free-market Republicans supposedly hate!

Few people seem to recognize that if we are to retain the jobs in the US that our real wages and the dollar will need to decline relative to other countries. Obama is in La-La land concerning his proposals to create "high paying" jobs. Not to mention that it is not the role of government to create jobs.

 

[ajetrumpet]

Your ignorance did.

laughing...

ya know chergh, you remind me of someone who is standing in a crowd similar to this one:

I guess I would say that ignorance is not knowing what's happening around you. I sometimes laugh at politicians this way. The day the world ends, they won't notice because they'll be in session still trying to gain control. What is there to control if there is noone around to BE controlled?

Anyway, I better discard the common sense and put my political face back on, otherwise I'll risk losing my job today. Looking forward to your response to this chergh, ol buddy ol pal, but I'm afraid I won't be back for another round of pointless typing. It was fun. Thanks! Always a pleasure to spat with my closest and dearest friends here...

 

[Rich]

. Looking forward to your response to this chergh, ol buddy ol pal, but I'm afraid I won't be back for another round of pointless typing.

I know you're American and thus a little confused, to say the least, but can you at least try and explain the logic in your sentence . Are you leaving again or are you coming back to talk sensibly for a change?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Hurricane Katrina is an example. FEMA gets lambasted for not acting fast enough. Now I am not defending FEMA, but the problem is that the City of New Orleans failed to act, then the State of Louisiana failed to respond. So who gets the blame, the Federal government. Then we have camera loving politicians proposing new Federal programs. It should be up to the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana to fix their emergency response system.

Steve, as a person who evacuated from New Orleans before Katrina, and who lived through reconstruction after, I have to say that you are both right and wrong in your view.

To begin with, the New Orleans disaster was and is the responsibility of the U.S. Government because of the details of the 1974 Navigable Waterways act. The feds in essence told us they would manage the levees and took it away from us to control those levees. So when the levees failed, NOW it becomes a local problem.

You are right, though, that a lot of finger-pointing occurred post-Katrina. Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco didn't get along. (Putting it mildly.) The Feds had never seen anything like that, either. So everyone was doing the "Chicken Little" dance.

Are you aware that Gov. Jindal had matters dancing to a different tune when Fay, Gustav, Hannah, and Ike rolled through? We learned. Buses were ready to take folks to higher ground in three different directions. When some of the service providers (bus lines) didn't provide as many buses as they were supposed to, Gov. Jindal told them - don't bother to come late. We had some folks on standby to take up the slack if you defaulted. He paid vendors for the buses they supplied and nobody got paid for what they promised.

But look at the flooding in the U.S. Northeast. Rhode Island is pretty much screwed by what is going on. Water deep enough to cover the roofs of station wagons is deep enough to flood basements and undercut foundations. We saw flooding in Ohio and Pennsylvania earlier. That is where we will see what happens as homes become condemned due to mold and mildew contamination. Then is when we will see some really angry Americans.

 

[Steve R.]

To begin with, the New Orleans disaster was and is the responsibility of the U.S. Government because of the details of the 1974 Navigable Waterways act. The feds in essence told us they would manage the levees and took it away from us to control those levees. So when the levees failed, NOW it becomes a local problem.

You have a very valid point, the story once you look the details becomes ever more complex. Since I am not local to New Orleans, my response was basically conceptual on how an emergency response would normally be handled.

Your comment also points to an even deeper problem. The disaster of the moment syndrome. If I recall correctly, the potential for levy failure was well know for many many years, but funding for the "fixes" was diverted to other "disaster" projects or where not appropriated (to reduce the deficit) since the problem was not considered imminent.

Here is one random blurb. "Washington knew exactly what needed to be done to protect the citizens of New Orleans from disasters like Katrina. Yet federal funding for Louisiana flood control projects was diverted to pay for the war in Iraq." From what I remember reading, funding for fixing the levees was being cut and diverted long before our involvement in Iraq. It's unfortunate that the commitment of our leaders to a solving problem, like the New Orleans levees, only lasts till the next crises; when the politicians can once again proclaim their unwavering commitment to solve the new crises.