what system is best? (1 Viewer)

[AccessBlaster]

Doc's is like "the straight man" on this thread, most entertaining.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Indeed, there ARE millions of people unemployed. And a LOT of them are unemployed because they were too stubborn to learn new things because the previous way of doing things wasn't there any more, perhaps because it wasn't efficient enough. The world is changing and if they can't keep up, they fall by the wayside.

the world does not need to change. that my point. but yes, i agree that it will change no matter what and people need to keep up. nothing can be done about this.

If they have no education and thus cannot do the jobs that ARE available, then it is on THEM to learn - or starve - or rely on the kindness of others.

on side note, some people do not have abilities. not saying i one of them, i am not. just saying

Their overhead rate is low,

overhead? you mean operational cost?

I have a very low opinion of the perpetual welfare crowd - and they DO exist despite all the "woke" propaganda from the Social Justice Warriors.

you mean ccancel culture right?

 

[conception_native_0123]

It was a really good place for needy people with no ability. Not much got done.

One guy claimed his contribution was his spirituality yet he was one of the most obnoxious people I have ever met.

and that all mean what?

 

[conception_native_0123]

A huge amount of unemployed people choose to be unemployed.

i talk to a woman at restaurant last week and they said they understaffed because their prrevious workers are getting more money collecting unemplloyment

They are either waiting for a "certain" role to come along that suits them better than the one down the street (which has had a Now Hiring sign on it for the past 50 years, every day)

i once talk to a man on a street corner who claim to me he was homeless but had 5 TVs at his apartment he used to entertain himself. i ask him why he was living on the street and he say to me "well i have many physical ailments that prevent me from working"

there was a McDonalds down the street who'd been hiring the whole time.

i wouild not mind working at mcDonalds actually. pretty easy work! and one job where there ARE answers to give that make sense! ha ha

 

[The_Doc_Man]

the world does not need to change. that my point. but yes, i agree that it will change no matter what and people need to keep up. nothing can be done about this.



on side note, some people do not have abilities. not saying i one of them, i am not. just saying



overhead? you mean operational cost?



you mean ccancel culture right?

First: The world DOES need to change. Every day. It's called nature. It is innate. But you are right that nothing can be done about it except to roll with the tide.

Many people indeed do not have abilities. (Never though of you as being deficient of abilities, though.) The thing is, community colleges often offer free courses on simple office skills. OK, "clerical" can be boring - but it earns a paycheck. And pardon me, but if someone is able to learn but chose not to, I have zero sympathy. For people with true disabilities? No problem, take care of them. For people whose major disability is abject laziness - let 'em starve.

By overhead, I include operating costs, salaries, ... the cost of doing business.

My comment about the perpetual welfare crowd had NOTHING to do with "cancel culture." The perpetual welfare crowd is more in line with YOUR comment: "i talk to a woman at restaurant last week and they said they understaffed because their prrevious workers are getting more money collecting unemployment" People want something for nothing. The best lesson we can teach them is to not give them something for nothing.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Doc's is like "the straight man" on this thread, most entertaining.

Hmmm... I guess I've got to watch out for doing too much of that. I've got a reputation to uphold too!

 

[conception_native_0123]

I NEVER said I was deficient of abilities doc man!

 

[conception_native_0123]

Doc man do you think that people who want something for nothing is nothing more than a wonderful consequence of the idol worshiping hell hole we call america? Excuse my language but that is perfect description of country we live in.

I would assume that if the United States was at least anywhere near balanced in its income distribution because people were actually intelligent and not idle worshiping idiots, that the huge problem we have a people wanting to get rich in 5 seconds would go away somewhat. Do you agree? This is my biggest issue with United States and it is entire influence on the entire world.

So maybe you can think of that as big consequence of things like stock market or Hollywood or gold mining or real estate rich people or whatever. Makes good sense to me. But then again like I say before, can't be stopped because people are people and it does not matter where they are because they do the same crap anywhere they go. Have they not been doing this same crap for thousands of years?

 

[Galaxiom]

A huge amount of unemployed people choose to be unemployed.

Four percent unemployment is called "full employment" in most economies because when unemployment falls below this level it starts putting upward pressure on wages and inflation begins to run away.

Interest rates are then pushed up to slow down the economy, reducing the number of jobs being created.

We live in a system where unemployment is designed in. Vilifying the unemployed is ridiculous.

 

[conception_native_0123]

We live in a system where unemployment is designed in. Vilifying the unemployed is ridiculous.

I don't think doc man will be happy to hear about vilifying unemployed people. He basically done that for a long long time now.

But unemployment is part of system because economists have made it that way and it been made that way for a long time now. More than a century I think. And I have broken promise to document by posting this in this thread. I'd be interested to see graphical representation of employment numbers by any economist in New York city. That would make perfect sense.

 

[Isaac]

Vilifying the unemployed is ridiculous.

Nobody's vilifying them, just stating facts. Choose to work or choose not to work. Occasionally an unemployed person really has been unable to get 'any job', but it's rare. If you feel that's a vilifying statement, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[Isaac]

Bristling when someone points out the undeniable fact that very many unemployed people have chosen to be unemployed, strictly speaking, is kind of like worrying that we need to build more Universities, because not enough people have a Degree.

Nearly every business in a 2 mile radius from where I live is currently hiring. They will gladly take just about any rational, showered, English-speaking human being above 17 yrs of age and below 95.

Yet many people are not working. Generally speaking it (right now at least) it can be traced back to idiot Democrats sending everybody free money, which obviously, they'd prefer to collect rather than working for roughly the same amount.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

This morning, CBS news reported the US Unemployment numbers. We have 8 million jobs waiting for people who can/will take them. If we then have as many as 8 million unemployed people, where is the disconnect? It is because when the pandemic was in full swing, nobody could safely work, so the feds cast out a safety net. But now, multiple vaccines exist that could solve the problems and let people work. But do they? No - they are willing to live in poverty on a government handout. Time to trigger the economy back into "work" mode rather than "shelter" mode.

I vilify people who COULD work - but won't because they are too comfortable living off of others. The framework of this nation was built on the tacit assumption that people would take care of themselves. The rugged frontiersman is a relic of the past these days, but the self-reliant person in a more modern setting should NOT be a relic. Self-reliance is a MAJOR key to success.

The concept of working to earn a living is nothing new. @conception_native_0123 - in another thread, you brought up religion. In the USA our primary religion is based on one edition or the other of the Christian's Bible, which has things to say on the topic:

Prov 10:4 - A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Prov 10:5 - He who gathers in summer is a prudent son, but he who sleeps in harvest is a son who brings shame.

Prov 21:25 - The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

Prov 12:24 - The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.

Prov 14:23 - In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

2 Thes 3:10 - For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

I would assume that if the United States was at least anywhere near balanced in its income distribution because people were actually intelligent and not idle worshiping idiots, that the huge problem we have a people wanting to get rich in 5 seconds would go away somewhat. Do you agree?

No. Consider I Cor 12:4-11 as a discussion of the fact that different people have different abilities and do different things because (according to the Bible) that is the way God wants it. Balanced income is an illusion, a false and perhaps even dangerous belief.

 

[conception_native_0123]

No. Consider I Cor 12:4-11 as a discussion of the fact that different people have different abilities and do different things because (according to the Bible) that is the way God wants it. Balanced income is an illusion, a false and perhaps even dangerous belief.

i think you have this one wrong doc man. this passage does NOT describe the difference in the abilities of people to do different kinds of work! It describes gifts that are given to different people but that they come from the same holy spirit. it does NOT describe wealth-earning abilities of people! is that what you meant to say? because that is not correct.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 - New International Version

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Isaac]

I vilify people who COULD work - but won't because they are too comfortable living off of others

And, (@Galaxiom), if I came across as "vilifying" anyone, it had to do with my experience doing debt collection for people who owed thousands of dollars on old credit cards. The vast majority of them used "I am unemployed" as the reason they did not pay. The majority of those had been in the "I am unemployed" status for years on end. Many times our conversations revealed that although the person was aware that many companies would hire them, they were waiting for a specific job to be available. I.E.:

Yes there are many construction jobs, but I am waiting for Assistant Superindendent Drywall Inspector of East Waxahatchee to open up.

As for whether that position is morally defensible while bad debts are being written off, I'll leave that up to each person's conscience--I can only speak for myself.

 

[conception_native_0123]

It is interesting that you mention all these vverses doc man. but what you not realize is that many of them, really those from proverbs, do NOT describe wealth and money making. here is what they mean, in terms of earning you way to heavens:

Prov 10:4 - A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

this means that working causes people to earn they place in heavens. has nothing to do with poverty as you thinking about it. this is biblocal talk. not economy talk.

Prov 10:5 - He who gathers in summer is a prudent son, but he who sleeps in harvest is a son who brings shame.

this describe loyalty to christ. not farming. it is parable-type writing by whoever wrote it! same as parables spoken by jesus long times ago.,

Prov 21:25 - The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

once again, this describe reward that you receive when you work on earth. nothing to do with economics.

Prov 12:24 - The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.

not sure really what this talking about. this one a little confusing!

Prov 14:23 - In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

this the same as the passage that say "faith without works is dead". TOIL = working for God and working to earn PLACE on earth and elsewhere. not money. but yes, money is part of it. always has to be because system pays out money.

 

[Isaac]

I, for one, believe that all of that Proverbs stuff was, in fact, referring to old-fashioned WORK vs. old-fashioned LAZYNESS--Just like Doc implied.

And it would be my guess that I am joined in this opinion by almost all Christian bible readers.

 

[Jbooker]

I suppose it's initially incumbent upon critics of an existing system to propose a better one in order to have profitable engageent on the matter.

 

[AccessBlaster]

There will be a day of reckoning when the stimulus and unemployment run out. People are addicted to the promise of "free money". At that point, the people in power will need a scapegoat to blame for their malfeasance.

 

[Isaac]

There will be a day of reckoning ..... At that point, the people in power will need a scapegoat to blame for their malfeasance.

Pick me - I know the answer to this one!! Will it be "racism" ???