Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[GaryPanic]

mike -

not quite with you on this one..I don't think your point of view stands up to logical scruitany (?)...however neither does the big bang theory-

 

[Rich]

The Bible was inspired by the word of God not written by God.

Ah, so it can be interpreted any which way you like, this anti-Semitic book?

 

[Rich]

mike -

(?)...however neither does the big bang theory-

Why not?

 

[Mike375]

Why not?

Not all scientists agree with it. So just pick your favourite and have faith.

 

[Mike375]

I hope these are not the scientists that Alisa and Rich have faith in.

"The evidence is in. There is now little doubt that our universe was brought into existence by a "big bang" that occurred some 15 billion years ago. The existence of such a creation event explains a number of phenomena including the expansion of the universe, the existence of the cosmic background radiation, and the relative proportions of various sorts of matter. As the theory has been refined, more specific predictions have been derived from it. A number of these predictions have recently been confirmed. Although this is a major scientific achievement, many believe that it has theological implications as well. Specifically, they believe that it provides scientific evidence for the existence of god. Astronomer George Smoot suggested as much when he exclaimed at a press conference reporting the findings of the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite, "If you're religious, it's like looking at the face of god."[1] Why? Because something must have caused the big bang, and who else but god could have done such a thing? Astronomer Hugh Ross in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, puts the argument this way: "If the universe arose out of a big bang, it must have had a beginning. If it had a beginning, it must have a beginner."[2] So beguiling is this argument that astronomer Geoffrey Burbridge has lamented that his fellow scientists are rushing off to join the "First Church of Christ of the Big Bang."[3] In what follows, I will attempt to determine whether such a conversion is the most rational response to the evidence."

 

[Rich]

Not all scientists agree with it. So just pick your favourite and have faith.

Not all religions agree with the Bible, what's your point?

 

[Rich]

I hope these are not the scientists that Alisa and Rich have faith in.

"The evidence is in. There is now little doubt that our universe was brought into existence by a "big bang" that occurred some 15 billion years ago. The existence of such a creation event explains a number of phenomena including the expansion of the universe, the existence of the cosmic background radiation, and the relative proportions of various sorts of matter. As the theory has been refined, more specific predictions have been derived from it. A number of these predictions have recently been confirmed. Although this is a major scientific achievement, many believe that it has theological implications as well. Specifically, they believe that it provides scientific evidence for the existence of god. Astronomer George Smoot suggested as much when he exclaimed at a press conference reporting the findings of the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite, "If you're religious, it's like looking at the face of god."[1] Why? Because something must have caused the big bang, and who else but god could have done such a thing? Astronomer Hugh Ross in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, puts the argument this way: "If the universe arose out of a big bang, it must have had a beginning. If it had a beginning, it must have a beginner."[2] So beguiling is this argument that astronomer Geoffrey Burbridge has lamented that his fellow scientists are rushing off to join the "First Church of Christ of the Big Bang."[3] In what follows, I will attempt to determine whether such a conversion is the most rational response to the evidence."

and Robert Dicke supports me in that the current Universe was created by the big bang from a previous Universe, based on your criteria Dicke must be correct

 

[GaryPanic]

my problem with the big bang is what started/sparked it off .

my view there must be a beginning .. and if there is a beginning what was there before ..circulaur arguement with myself ..
same with God - if there is a God what made him/her/it ??
now to say that god has always been there - you can say the universe has always been there ...

I don't know the answer - no one does - they have views but no real facts to back it up - it does depend on where you want to look at it from ..
the god view doesn't quite work for me - this partly down to relgious leaders - messing with peoples heads - so i an always relulantant to take anything these people say,although some of them do try to lead the life they expect others to (I am thinking of the Dala lama ) but there are other leaders who live a life tot he doctrine they belive in -

now to take the bible as the blue print for creation etc , why not use another religous book - older therefore closer to creation - one of the hindu books or Sikh (I hope spelt it right) ...

it is where you asre looking at it from ...
they are only vies no facts -- i ramble....

 

[Rich]

my problem with the big bang is what started/sparked it off .

A massive collision caused by gravitational forces

 

[GaryPanic]

Rich,

i can live with that .. but what caused the first one ....
and how many big bang cicles have we been through??

(missed a rely on this) - what made gravity ?

 

[Rabbie]

Rich,

i can live with that .. but what caused the first one ....
and how many big bang cicles have we been through??

It may literally have been going on for ever which would mean there is an infinite number of big bang cycles. The answer is that nobody actually knows. There are several theories as to how a collapsing universe could condense into a singularity and be the source of a big bang

 

[Rich]

Rich,
- what made gravity ?

Gravity is created by Mass, that's not the Catholic Mass by the way

 

[GaryPanic]

yes but what made mass etc..

in essense what started it all of and then what made that ...

personally i don't think we are a race (human) can fathom it out - we only views etc. where we are intelligent is that we know the question to ask - the answer we might not be able to understand but at least we know our limitations

(mine is pretty clear -english and grammer) lol

 

[Mike375]

Gary,

Hawking and Co have already given the answer. All physics breaks down at pre Big Bang. Thus a supernatural is the only answer as that is the only choice that can satisfy "but what came before it".

Our thinking is obviously limited by physics/chemistry so we can't conceive of a supernatural that does not require a beginning. Of course it is highly unlikely that the suoernatural is a man with a bead and white robes.

The difficulty with being an atheist is the highest sources of their information are blokes like Hawkings and Davies, but they bail out themselves. They have said themselves that physics can't provide the answer.

 

[ShaneMan]

I also find his justification for the inconsistencies in the bible amusing. Surely the Bible is meant to be the word of God and if I understand the argument correctly God doesn't make mistakes. But perhaps Mike knows better. If I was religous I think I would find it insulting to have my God compared to someone putting notes in an insurance file.

Rabbie, you would be correct. I am not asking anyone to agree nor am I looking for comments back, just helping with an explanation. In Christianity, the Bible is the Word of God and Christians are going to view it as inerrant. The argument from most Christians is that the original manuscripts are inerrant, not the various translations. Yes men did the actual writing of it but they are also going to point to verses like 2 Timothy 3:16, were the verse says that it was "God breathed", meaning God inspired the men to write what they did.

 

[ColinEssex]

The argument from most Christians is that the original manuscripts are inerrant, not the various translations.

So where are these manuscripts now?

Col

 

[Mike375]

Gravity is created by Mass, that's not the Catholic Mass by the way

I missed this little gem

The cause of gravity is not known.

 

[Rich]

The cause of gravity is not known.

There's a simplified explanation for you here
http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/1-what-is-gravity.html

 

[Mike375]

There's a simplified explanation for you here
http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/space-environment/1-what-is-gravity.html

Mass does not cause gravity. The cause in unknown.

Certainly lots of mass equates to lots of gravity but the cause is not known.
A large parcel from the butcher mean lots of meat but the large parcel is not the cause of the meat.

 

[Mike375]

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993/physics/PHY40.HTM