Anniversaries, 09/11 and Hurricane Ike

[Rich]

Britain did change the world, but for the most part the change really didn't take.

Starting in 1945, Britain began divesting itself of its Empire. The reason, beating Hitler had bankrupted the country and Britain no longer had the means to continue it. Those places around the world that were British colonies were quickly granted Dominion status. By the 1960s, the British Empire consisted of Gibraltor and Hong Kong (and a few other places).
I will give Britain credit. When independance came there was a well trained in-place native civil service so that the new country had a good chance to succeed. Dictatorships quickly overthrew democracy however, many of which continue to this day based primarily on tribal factions.
After a few hundred years of British rule, the whole place went back to the government they had before the British arrived.

Note: I am not saying ALL the countries that left the Colonial Office for the Commonwealth office have suffered this fate.

Where's Gibraltor and does your generalisation include the worlds largest democracy, that's India by the way, for the Americans?

 

[Rich]

Football, choir, chess club, French club.

I preferred to play with the girls and ended up getting led astray

 

[TessB]

I preferred to play with the girls and ended up getting led astray

is it led astray or laid astray?

 

[statsman]

Where's Gibraltor and does your generalisation include the worlds largest democracy, that's India by the way, for the Americans?

Please go back and read the last line in the quote.
I'll make it 24 point next time if that will help.

The original Indian colony included Pakistan (dictatorship) and Myanmar/Burma (dictatorship).
I win two-out-of-three.

 

[Rich]

is it led astray or laid astray?

and they lied too

 

[Alc]

Britain did change the world, but for the most part the change really didn't take.

Starting in 1945, Britain began divesting itself of its Empire. The reason, beating Hitler had bankrupted the country and Britain no longer had the means to continue it. Those places around the world that were British colonies were quickly granted Dominion status. By the 1960s, the British Empire consisted of Gibraltor and Hong Kong (and a few other places).
I will give Britain credit. When independance came there was a well trained in-place native civil service so that the new country had a good chance to succeed. Dictatorships quickly overthrew democracy however, many of which continue to this day based primarily on tribal factions.
After a few hundred years of British rule, the whole place went back to the government they had before the British arrived.

Note: I am not saying ALL the countries that left the Colonial Office for the Commonwealth office have suffered this fate.

Is the change we're talking about limited solely to which countries remained part of the British empire or retained the British system of government? If so, you're absolutely correct.

If, however, we're using the word 'change' in the more usual sense of 'not remaining the same', then it's pretty far from correct. Every empire that's expanded - be it Greek, Roman, Spanish, British, or whoever else - has had varying effects on the areas it conquered. This includes, but isn't limited to, language, clothes, architecture, engineering, weaponry, agriculture and transport.

Are you suggesting that other than a civil service, you can travel to various countries that were once 'ruled' by Britain and see no remnants of it?

 

[statsman]

Is the change we're talking about limited solely to which countries remained part of the British empire or retained the British system of government? If so, you're absolutely correct.

If, however, we're using the word 'change' in the more usual sense of 'not remaining the same', then it's pretty far from correct. Every empire that's expanded - be it Greek, Roman, Spanish, British, or whoever else - has had varying effects on the areas it conquered. This includes, but isn't limited to, language, clothes, architecture, engineering, weaponry, agriculture and transport.

Are you suggesting that other than a civil service, you can travel to various countries that were once 'ruled' by Britain and see no remnants of it?

The remnants remain. The attempt to install a "British" system of Parliamentary democracy failed.

The original Dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa) worked remarkably well. Because of this, Britain attempted to expand the experiment.

The original Dominions had long histories of local democratic government long before they became Dominions. The newly independant colonies in Africa and Asia had no such traditions. Most of the folks had no idea what a vote was. Turns out they only got to cast one.

Areas like the Carribbean had exposure to democracy due to links to the USA or the other democratic countries of North America. Most have maintained democracy.

NOW

Having said that, even though the countries are dictatorships, most retain many of the British institutions that were left for them and they are proud to be members of the Commonwealth.

 

[Alc]

The remnants remain. The attempt to install a "British" system of Parliementary democracy failed.

So when you said 'change' you meant 'install a British parliamentary system'. That wasn't clear from your first post, so I apologise for the misunderstanding. I assumed that you meant change in a far broader sense.

 

[Rich]

Areas like the Carribbean had exposure to democracy due to links to the USA or the other democratic countries of North America. Most have maintained democracy.

The United States is not a democracy so that knocks that theory on the head

 

[statsman]

The United States is not a democracy so that knocks that theory on the head

You should stop trying to be provocative. You're really not very good at it.

Why not try sharing some of the intelligence I'm sure is in there someplace.

I bet you would find it far more entertaining.

 

[TessB]

I've been drinking so I couldn't quite make out the last posts.
Are people still arguing?

 

[Rich]

Are people still arguing?

Only Statsman again....................

 

[Rich]

You should stop trying to be provocative. You're really not very good at it.

Why not try sharing some of the intelligence I'm sure is in there someplace.

I bet you would find it far more entertaining.

I will if you start posting facts not theories, the US is a Republic, not a democracy

 

[ColinEssex]

Britain was fully complicit in slavery. End Of.

Britain was a major supplier of slaves. Alot of major cities like Bristol and Liverpool were built on slavery - we (the British) did really well out of it, many historic buildings and city centres were build using the proceeds from slavery. Then it was banned.

So now we use slavery in a more covert manner - we use small children and women in eastern countries to make our goods for us. They get paid peanuts (which in their case is better than nothing) and we get the goods. Everyone's a winner.

Little fingers = little neat stiches.

We also sneak in Eastern Block people for illegal work in agriculture, sex industry etc. And for doing jobs many in the UK don't want to do.

Slavery in a slightly different form is alive and well and is a growth industry.

Col

 

[statsman]

I will if you start posting facts not theories, the US is a Republic, not a democracy

I would respond on point but you would accuse me of agruing.

 

[Fifty2One]

We played lacrosse but not as a school activity because I was not good enough for the team. We also played football (Canadian) and soccor (real football).

A couple of years back we tried to play baseball at a municipal park but got shooed off because we were just a bunch of people and not an actual team - which I think is wrong as local taxes pay for the facility and we were not playing during any 'teams' allotted time...

So, anyway..... who else played sports in school, or was in drama or chorus?

 

[Rich]

I would respond on point but you would accuse me of agruing.

What's agruing, try agreeing for a change then

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I've been drinking so I couldn't quite make out the last posts.
Are people still arguing?

Yes, they are.

 

[statsman]

What's agruing, try agreeing for a change then

I would respond on point but you would accuse me of agruing.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I've been off the forum for a few days and wow things moved on, I thank ALC for saving me the trouble of responding to many of the arguments. I especially agree with the following.

So when you said 'change' you meant 'install a British parliamentary system'. That wasn't clear from your first post, so I apologise for the misunderstanding. I assumed that you meant change in a far broader sense.

I do "like" Dan-cats approach, suggest I have said something daft and then knock it down, way to win an argument. Only he raised the issue of altruism the rest of us always knew that colonialism was from self interest.
I also like the way he raised the issue of the slave trade and when I gave him some true facts accused me of point scoring, not sure whom I was scoring them against.

Brian