Cyberbullying VS Light-Hearted Prank (1 Viewer)

RainLover · Dec 11, 2012

RainLover said:
How terribly sad.
Here we have a Nurse working in a Hospital with all those Doctors and Nurses around her yet not one was able to see that this poor woman was suffering such a high degree of depression that lead her to take her own life.
This is the same hospital charged with the care of a future Queen of England and her unborn child who may one day become the King of England.

I am quoting myself here. I made this statement very early on in the conversation. No one has addressed it.

It would appear that the Radio Station 2Day FM may be in breach of a law that states that before any telephone conversation can be recorded the other party must be informed. From all reports this was not done.

To me the presenters are not wholly at blame for this as they are under instruction of others within the organisation.
I do not see where any responsibility for the Lady's death can be placed at the feet of the Presenters.

The fact is that other than public opinion no one of any authority is suggesting that the presenters are guilty of any wrong doing.

If we move further along with the events, and I must make some assumptions here, the first important thing to happen after the call was that the Hospital Board become aware of what happened. They would have met with both nurses and informed them that they did wrong. They may have threatened the nurses with their jobs.

What was said and how has not been made public. It was however enough for one of the nurses to take her own life. Why did she do this? Why was she not given professional help for her depressed state.

I am talking about a hospital here, and not just any hospital. This is a hospital which is held in high regard by the Royal Family. They have a reputation to keep. They condemned a nurse acting in a job that she may not have been trained, for her part in the phone call. What happened to the security systems that the hospital should have in place so that this type of thing could never happen. What happened to all those professional people who did not notice the signs of a seriously depressed person.

I am putting most of the blame fairly on the shoulders of the Hospital Board and its Administration. It is the hospital that is covering its arse.

Brianwarnock · Dec 11, 2012

Rain
In our media the hospital has repeatedly stated that the nurses were not reprimanded in any way. It seems to me that posters on this thread are making too many assumptions.
The only facts we know are that two presenters and a radio station committed an unlawful prank and a lady is dead.

Brian

nanscombe · Dec 11, 2012

I, for one, don't know that the presenters committed an unlawful act. If they had then the radio company lawyers are in for a rude awakening.

If it was unlawful then prank shows wouldn't exist at all.

You couldn't call someone up, tell them your are recording the conversation, and then prank them as it wouldn't work.

Being a "prank" would seem to be a reasonable defence otherwise the prank wouldn't work.

As to transmitting without permission, it would only take a clause of "taking reasonable steps to obtain permission". As a get out clause, 5 alleged attempted phone calls could be seen as "reasonable steps".

As far as data protection goes, where would be the intent to gain personal information by deception? This is a pair of prankster DJs not British tabloid journalists.

The only fact is a woman is dead.

Brianwarnock · Dec 11, 2012

So all of the media statements about it not being lawful in Australia to record a conversation without permission are wrong? They maybe of course, but that would seem strange.

Brian

nanscombe · Dec 11, 2012

If the legal position was so clear cut:

Why would would a team of Lawyers Ok it?
Why would prank shows exist?

Even if it were clearly unlawful the benefits, ie ratings, probably far outweigh the penalty of a fine.

In the UK it is probably unlawful to avoid paying VAT. Not paying the extra 20% to the Government, for a cash in hand job, probably sounds a reasonable thing to do to many people. It's not as if the Government does anything to earn it.

A year ago I wonder what the British media would have said about the legality of listening to voicemail messages on a dead girls phone?

Brianwarnock · Dec 11, 2012

When this first came to light a presenter on our local radio said that he used to be involved on a prank call show, although the people were not warned in advance of the prank permission was always obtained for the broadcast, but when some of those that refused started to say that the prank upset them the lawyers pulled the show.

As your last sentence implies the station was probably happy to take a chance it probably never envisaged a death.

Brian

Brianwarnock · Dec 11, 2012

Your later added paragraphs have nothing todo with this thread.

Brian

nanscombe · Dec 11, 2012

If one were to weigh up the benefits (extra ratings and advertising revenue) against the penalties (a possible fine of a couple of grand) then it's probably worth it.

Also, in some cases,

"It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission" - Grace Hopper

Brianwarnock said:
Your later added paragraphs have nothing todo with this thread.

Brian

But it does illustrate that people are willing to do things which are "unlawful" if the benefits outweigh the penalties.

nanscombe · Dec 11, 2012

Radio station to donate $500k to nurse's family

Coles and Telstra were both quick to pull their advertising, while the suspension is estimated to have cost the station around $150,000 a day.

If that's the sort of benefit we were talking about who cares about a penalty of a few thousand dollars? With that sort of money it's well worth the risk.

Adam Caramon · Dec 11, 2012

nanscombe said:
If I was the male DJ, since I (he) never even spoke to the woman, I wouldn't see her over-reaction as my fault.

I wouldn't feel her reaction was my fault either, even if I spoke with her. But I would still feel bad that something I was a part of caused the woman to commit suicide.

RainLover said:
I am putting most of the blame fairly on the shoulders of the Hospital Board and its Administration. It is the hospital that is covering its arse.

Agreed.

nanscombe said:
I, for one, don't know that the presenters committed an unlawful act. If they had then the radio company lawyers are in for a rude awakening.

If it was unlawful then prank shows wouldn't exist at all.

This is what I was thinking as well. For a few years I listened to a radio morning show that was a lot of risque stories, calls from listeners, and occasionally some prank phone calls. This was a live show, so unless all of the pranks were staged, it doesn't seem that they could possibly have gotten permission to conduct the pranks on the air.

Laws are of course different here than in Australia, but usually lawyers take a conservative approach to anything that might get their client into trouble.

dan-cat said:
I'm beginning to form a theory as to why this lack of empathy is becoming increasingly widespread. Perhaps I'll start a thread on it.

That could be an interesting discussion. I looked up some information regarding the Eggshell skull rule you had earlier referenced - all of the examples I can find have to do with physical damages or injuries. Someone causes someone else to have a heart attack. Or someone causes more pain than could be expected from a simple kick. For the most part, I agree with that.

When we start talking about causing stress or hurt feelings, I think that argument falls apart.

RainLover · Dec 11, 2012

What I want to know is who is pranking who.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD3AXkGKaMw

Could this be approved.

Fifty2One · Dec 11, 2012

I would side on this being Cyberbullying - if it was a light-hearted prank it would have gone away by now rather then one person dead and her family destroyed, one radio station trying to pay off the family with guilt money and two presenters being out of a job... so far...

dan-cat · Dec 11, 2012

RainLover said:
I am talking about a hospital here, and not just any hospital. This is a hospital which is held in high regard by the Royal Family. They have a reputation to keep. They condemned a nurse acting in a job that she may not have been trained, for her part in the phone call. What happened to the security systems that the hospital should have in place so that this type of thing could never happen. What happened to all those professional people who did not notice the signs of a seriously depressed person.

I am putting most of the blame fairly on the shoulders of the Hospital Board and its Administration. It is the hospital that is covering its arse.

Oh dear, this is so disappointing.

Firstly it is pure conjecture.

Secondly in what way do you think that a radio station, or anyone for that matter, has the right to insist on a hospital redirecting its resources from the care of its patients to shielding itself from the harmful effects of puerile, anti-social behavior so it can indulge in same with impunity.

I'm really appalled by this line of thinking. It clearly illustrates the total lack of empathy for the situation. No consideration of limited resource, prioritization of care to the sick or how a hundred prank calls could possibly stretch their procedures to breaking point.

A total lack of understanding of the pressures of the care industry and quite infuriating.

dan-cat · Dec 11, 2012

Adam Caramon said:
When we start talking about causing stress or hurt feelings, I think that argument falls apart.

It takes less effort to acknowledge a physical manifestation of suffering. It stems backs to the empathy thing. Probably for another day though, feeling disinclined at the moment.

nanscombe · Dec 11, 2012

And to infuriate you further ....

dan-cat said:
Oh dear, this is so disappointing.

Firstly it is pure conjecture.

No more than other posts.

dan-cat said:
Secondly in what way do you think that a radio station, or anyone for that matter, has the right to insist on a hospital redirecting its resources from the care of its patients to shielding itself from the harmful effects of puerile, anti-social behavior so it can indulge in same with impunity.

This is a private clinic not a busy, over-run accident and emergency centre.

This wasn't in the middle of a busy day (more's the pity), it was 05:30 in the morning when most of the patients would probably still have been asleep. There wasn't the need of extra manpower to look cover the phones.

dan-cat said:
I'm really appalled by this line of thinking. It clearly illustrates the total lack of empathy for the situation. No consideration of limited resource, prioritization of care to the sick or how a hundred prank calls could possibly stretch their procedures to breaking point.

I have no empathy in your trying to shift the blame for the unfortunate, unforseen outcome to this situation either.

Limited resources, prioritisation of care to sick might be an appropriate justification for anger if this were an underfunded, undermanned, overstretched NHS hospital but it wasn't.

During office hours this would only have tied up the time of a telephonist who would be paid to sit at the switchboard anyway. Such a pity this took place out of office hours.

dan-cat said:
A total lack of understanding of the pressures of the care industry and quite infuriating.

industry says it all, this was a private hospital so money and reputation will be of concern. You can always hire another nurse.

Adam Caramon · Dec 11, 2012

dan-cat said:
It takes less effort to acknowledge a physical manifestation of suffering. It stems backs to the empathy thing.

Its easier to make a factual or evidence-based case when the suffering is physical.

My thought is that, where possible, it is each person's duty to know their conditions or ailments that make them less capable than the average person, and take steps to protect themselves.

This doesn't grant free license to others to pick on such people, or to exploit their vulnerabilities. It does however put the burden on the person that is less capable in accidental situations.

dan-cat said:
Probably for another day though, feeling disinclined at the moment.

Fair enough.

Dick7Access · Dec 11, 2012

I am not taking sides here as I have mixed emotion. However, I just got out of the hospital 7 days ago (I am still typing with one finger), and right after being processed in they gave me a code number. Any of my family or friends that wanted any information on me they had to give that code before they would get any information. 8 months ago when my wife was in a trauma hospital we were give a code number that I even had used to get information. My wife is now in a rehab facility, again a pass word even for me. I may be wrong, but am under assumption that there are laws, at least in the USA, that directs any health facilities not to give out any info without consent of the patient. The reason I have mixed emotion is that all of us have use pranks that could have gone bad. There was a radio station in Boston that for $20.00 donation to cancer research they would call anybody at 6 in the morning. At the time my x-wife was taking care of a convalescing priest in our home. They called us. Now if I had, had a heart attack, because of receiving a call so early would the radio station have been libel? I don’t know if the radio station did any illegal. I know that some illegal stuff happened after I left for work, that’s why she is an x. Don’t post me and tell me how naïve I was back then, How, oh how I know, but never leaves sight of the thought that hindsight is so much better than foresight , even in pranks.

Vassago · Dec 11, 2012

I appreciate everyone's input on this. So, my opinions on the matter are this. Yes, if the djs are guilty of anything, it is unlawfully recording a call. This probably is not a felony of any kind and most of the time is overlooked by the police when it comes to radio stations. Besides, the hospital itself probably has a recording device for these phone calls.

As far as the hospital, as others have stated, they didn't recieve any kind of punishment for their part in this ordeal. The royal family also didn't attack the nurses and sided with them, based on their public announcement anyway. So, it still seems odd to me that she would take her own life based on media and public trolling alone. I still believe there is something we don't know that caused this to happen. Something we may never know.

Dick7Access · Dec 11, 2012

Vassago said:
I appreciate everyone's input on this. So, my opinions on the matter are this. Yes, if the djs are guilty of anything, it is unlawfully recording a call. This probably is not a felony of any kind and most of the time is overlooked by the police when it comes to radio stations. Besides, the hospital itself probably has a recording device for these phone calls.

As far as the hospital, as others have stated, they didn't recieve any kind of punishment for their part in this ordeal. The royal family also didn't attack the nurses and sided with them, based on their public announcement anyway. So, it still seems odd to me that she would take her own life based on media and public trolling alone. I still believe there is something we don't know that caused this to happen. Something we may never know.

You post made me think of something else. On this forum we have some very vicious attacks. They don’t bother me in the least, but knowing human nature there probable some that get heated. If they were to have a heart attack, would the poster be responsible. I think not. I would have to go back and check all the post but if I remember right some who are ready to castigate the radio station are some of the biggest name caller.
Example of human nature: Many years ago I worked in factory as a maintenance welder. Next to my shop was the maintenance plumber. He had petition the company for years to buy an electric pipe threading machine. Very shortly after getting it someone who wasn’t authorized to use it, broke the head. That plumber spent the rest of the day shouting at everybody, his face beet red. He went home that day and had a heart attack. Never returned to work, never got to use his new machine. If I recall correctly the guy who broke the machine got to be the new plumber.

Vassago · Dec 11, 2012

I wrote a long reply that I just lost because the forum wouldn't post it. Figures. lol

Cyberbullying VS Light-Hearted Prank (1 Viewer)

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