A Special Thanks to all vets

[GaryPanic]

Colin

you may be right in part - but this has come accross - a little aggressive

Bodisathva
do you still sing the national athem at school every day and do that pledge thing (not you personally- but the kids) - I pledge algiance to the etc

this is something that is not done in europe - we sing the national athem at football games (nationals anyway) and at rugby - the welsh do this very well but the New Zealanders beat everyone hands down on this

I think the first pledge/oath I gave was when I joined the Army
I don't think I could sing the national athem without the music - (ours is a bit dour)

so this could be seen as a type of "brainwashing" or even crowd control

g

 

[rainman89]

Colin

you may be right in part - but this has come accross - a little aggressive

Bodisathva
do you still sing the national athem at school every day and do that pledge thing (not you personally- but the kids) - I pledge algiance to the etc

this is something that is not done in europe - we sing the national athem at football games (nationals anyway) and at rugby - the welsh do this very well but the New Zealanders beat everyone hands down on this

I think the first pledge/oath I gave was when I joined the Army
I don't think I could sing the national athem without the music - (ours is a bit dour)

so this could be seen as a type of "brainwashing" or even crowd control

g

You dont HAVE to say the pledge if u dont want too

there was a big debate years ago about seperation of church and state when they said "one nation under god" in the pledge. i dont recall how it was resolved

 

[GaryPanic]

Thanks Ray
Its nice to know what others do - and my nephew is stateside and he has dual nationality -he used to get upset that there was no pledge too the UK side of his heritage - told him not to worry about it - as our pledge is to Beer

 

[rainman89]

- as our pledge is to Beer

I hear that Course im a stickler for the Canadian Beer

 

[Joe8915]

It's called brainwashing.

Joe, how can you disagree with a presidents policy / action yet also support him in that action?

As Gary said, we had street riots - the lot, over the poll tax Thatcher wanted to bring in. People power won, she was chucked out of power and poll tax was abolished.

Politicians are there to do good for the UK and the people - they're not gods like you treat your lunatic dictator.

Col

ColinEssex, ColinEssex, you just don't get it. I have read most of your post on other subjects in this form, so therefore there is no need for me to explain. It appears others has tried, but you still are so pig headed (which is alright) there is noting I can say to make you understand. So good luck in life and may you be very happy on which you have, because I know I am very happy to live and be very satisfied on what I have. God Bless American land of the free. I would even welcome you ColinEssex to eat at my table.

 

[Bodisathva]

Bodisathva
do you still sing the national athem at school every day and do that pledge thing (not you personally- but the kids) - I pledge algiance to the etc

I don't really know. Each school was different, and we only had such daily "rituals" in primary and secondary school, and with the liberal protests surrounding the separation of church and state as well as the infringement of civil liberties, I believe it became more of a "participate if you want to", and the morning prayer was renamed a "moment of silence"


...once you start college, then you take the oath to Beer...a good Lager or Stout, preferrably

 

[Fifty2One]

Just my two cents worth then I will get off the subject. Here in Canada people are prompted to wear red on Fridays to show you support Canada's troops. Depending on peoples leans, some consider wearing red as a sign that you support the missions. However, in our home we wear red on Fridays to support the men and women and not neccessarily the missions.

Quite frankly we preferred when they were known and respected around the world as Canada's Peacekeepers, but they still remain as the individuals who are willing to make the ultimate sacrafice. It is this gift and the gift of their loved ones and relatives which we chose to honour.

 

[CraigDolphin]

I generally try to stay out of these but this should not go unchallenged.

You make it seem like us regular americans have any say in what is done when it comes to wars. and u will say "but you elect the people that do this" but.... technically we dont. the people in the electoral college( think that is what its called) do that.

The US Congress is not elected by the electoral college: it is elected directly by the people. The US Congress authorized Bush to declare war on Iraq. The new, directly elected, US Congress just authorized more money to continue the war. Without it, Bush would have had no choice but to withdraw the troops from Iraq. You cannot blame the electoral college for this war. To claim that the US citizenry are somehow not responsible for US foreign policy is a cop-out.

America and Britain both have representative democracies. Citizens who vote for a representative that gets elected, or who fail to vote at all, are morally responsible for everything that their representatives do while in office. Voting is a serious business and democracy is a double-edged sword.

I had a lot more to say but I deleted most of it for the sake of brevity.

 

[rainman89]

I generally try to stay out of these but this should not go unchallenged.
The US Congress is not elected by the electoral college: it is elected directly by the people. The US Congress authorized Bush to declare war on Iraq. The new, directly elected, US Congress just authorized more money to continue the war. Without it, Bush would have had no choice but to withdraw the troops from Iraq. You cannot blame the electoral college for this war. To claim that the US citizenry are somehow not responsible for US foreign policy is a cop-out.
America and Britain both have representative democracies. Citizens who vote for a representative that gets elected, or who fail to vote at all, are morally responsible for everything that their representatives do while in office. Voting is a serious business and democracy is a double-edged sword.
I had a lot more to say but I deleted most of it for the sake of brevity.

I was not blaming anyone. I was refering to the president since most of the bashing is goin on about him.
I know that the US congress is elected by the people.

To claim that the US citizenry are somehow not responsible for US foreign policy is a cop-out

Not was i was implying at all. Once they are elected, they make the decisions. thats all i was saying. not like we have the option to veto.

 

[Rich]

God Bless American land of the free.

You mean land of the fleeced, home of the slave surely? The pretension that the US is the home of the free, is nothing more than brainwashing garbage, you're no more free than many other nations on this planet and a lot more controlled than many others too

 

[Rich]

I thought this was interesting. This will be my last comment

Iraq Less Violent than Washington, D.C.
Despite media coverage purporting to show that escalating violence in Iraq has the country spiraling out of control, civilian death statistics complied by Rep. Steve King, R-IA, indicate that Iraq actually has a lower civilian violent death rate than Washington, D.C.

Appearing with Westwood One radio host Monica Crowley on Saturday, King said that the incessantly negative coverage of the Iraq war prompted him to research the actual death numbers.
"I began to ask myself the question, if you were a civilian in Iraq, how could you tolerate that level of violence," he said. "What really is the level of violence?"
Using Pentagon statistics cross-checked with independent research, King said he came up with an annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.51 per 100,000.
Other American cities with higher violent civilian death rates than Iraq include:
• Detroit - 41.8 per 100,000
• Baltimore - 37.7 per 100,000
• Atlanta - 34.9 per 100,000
• St. Louis - 31.4 per 100,000
The American city with the highest civilian death rate was New Orleans before Katrina - with a staggering 53.1 deaths per 100,000 - almost twice the death rate in Iraq.

Well how odd, we've been shot down in flames by Americans on this forum everytime we point out just what a violent gunho place America is

 

[ColinEssex]

ColinEssex, ColinEssex, you just don't get it. I have read most of your post on other subjects in this form, so therefore there is no need for me to explain. It appears others has tried, but you still are so pig headed (which is alright) there is noting I can say to make you understand. So good luck in life and may you be very happy on which you have, because I know I am very happy to live and be very satisfied on what I have. God Bless American land of the free. I would even welcome you ColinEssex to eat at my table.

I thought you'd take the normal US stance and ignore my question and start personal name calling (pig headed), it's the easy way out - but hardly forum etiquette.

America is going to need blessing when it starts war with Iran

Col

 

[Joe8915]

You mean land of the fleeced, home of the slave surely? The pretension that the US is the home of the free, is nothing more than brainwashing garbage, you're no more free than many other nations on this planet and a lot more controlled than many others too

hmmmmmmmmmm what about Darfur

 

[Alc]

There is absolutely no need to get involved in someone elses problems (unless you get very well paid for it) - the sooner the USA realises that the better off we'll all be.

What about Poland's problems, at the end of the 1930s?
I think it was acceptable for the UK et al to get involved then.

Plus, the yanks have been roundly criticised for not 'getting involved' in other countries' problems before 1941.

Methinks they're between a rock and a hard place, if we adopt both stances.

 

[Bodisathva]

Methinks they're between a rock and a hard place, if we adopt both stances.

I think that's the point...

 

[Rich]

What about Poland's problems, at the end of the 1930s?
I think it was acceptable for the UK et al to get involved then.

Plus, the yanks have been roundly criticised for not 'getting involved' in other countries' problems before 1941.

Methinks they're between a rock and a hard place, if we adopt both stances.

There's a world of difference between starting a war and being forced to defend freedom and liberty, what did the wars in Nam, Iraq etc. etc. have to do with either?

 

[Rich]

hmmmmmmmmmm what about Darfur

What about Darfur, they don't claim to be the leader of the free world, in any case the US under Bush isn't interested in their plight, there's no oil there

 

[ColinEssex]

What about Poland's problems, at the end of the 1930s?
I think it was acceptable for the UK et al to get involved then.

Plus, the yanks have been roundly criticised for not 'getting involved' in other countries' problems before 1941.

Methinks they're between a rock and a hard place, if we adopt both stances.

I was talking about individual people - as you well know. The gung-ho Yanks who couldn't wait to have a fight and get into a war, so lied to get into the RAF.

Col

 

[Joe8915]

What about Darfur, they don't claim to be the leader of the free world, in any case the US under Bush isn't interested in their plight, there's no oil there

Get glue, we only import MAYBE 2% oil from IRAQ
Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in March, exporting 2.305 million barrels per day to the United States, which was a slight decrease from last month (2.448 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1.749 million barrels per day.

 

[ColinEssex]

What about Darfur, they don't claim to be the leader of the free world, in any case the US under Bush isn't interested in their plight, there's no oil there

There's no water or food either. But thats not of interest to the USA, who cares if they all die. . . . . if only they had oil