Question Access and Citrix - some questions for those who have done it

[boblarson]

We currently use Citrix for our remote employees and the way it works currently is this:

1. Every night a script runs that copies the latest MDE file to a location on the Citrix Server. The users' Citrix profile uses shortcuts that reference that same file so, in essence multiple users are opening and using the same MDE file (not good in my opinion) and some have locking issues because someone else has a report open and the process for creating the report can't run until the other person closes it).

2. When someone logs in, their profile gets updated with the latest MDE files. It works that way on our local desktops too.

So, we've been toying with the idea of having the app icon in the web browser from the web client actually run a script to copy the latest frontend to the Citrix user's profile at the time they want to run it instead of doing it all overnight for all of the Access Apps and instead of running everything off a single MDE file.

The questions my boss has are these:

1. Do we know what impact this will have on Citrix capacity (hard drive space and processing speed) by having separate instances of the database opened for each user?
2. What is the impact if we need to add 60 new Citrix users in the future?

Any suggestions or comments would be welcome as we determine how we're going to go. Our I.T. guy has responded by saying:

The individual front ends will be located in (copied to) each their H drives and not locally to each of the Citrix servers. My thought is to make a new folder (maybe named "Database") in the hidden "DataSafe" directory which is currently where their Internet Favorites and Cookies are redirected. We had basically two options of how to do this. Either it would be done each time the user logs onto Citrix itself using a batch file in conjunction with Desktop Authority, or would be done each time the user opens an instance of a access database using a batch file in conjunction with a Citrix published application of the access database. Either way is fine with me but it sounded to me that we don't want them to have to log off of Citrix in order for them to be able to get a new copy of the front end and they would just need to close the app and reopen it to get the new front end.

As far as the impact is concerned, the storage size of the front end is really what's in question. For instance, if the front end is 5MB in size, then it is a 5MB file that is going to be added to the used bandwidth and overwritten in their H drive each time they open the published app. If each person will get a copy of the front end in their H drive, the impact to data storage will be that it increases the size of what is stored on network drives and backed up by 5MB x Number of Users; 5MB x 60 users = 300MB of added files to storage.

There won't be anything we will have to do for new users added to the Citrix environment as the published app is what will handle the copy process.

 

[Banana]

While I'm just starting out with Citrix, I've been told that they can make whatever is published in Citrix a throwaway copy, so there should be no need to have individual copy for each users *providing* that a copy is made of the file when user request it and user use only that copy which is then discarded once they're done.

I don't know enough to answer about performance, though.

 

[pbaldy]

We use Citrix servers in our Vegas office. I don't manage them, so I can't address the performance issue, though I can't imagine front ends are big enough to cause a hard drive space issue.

Presuming Citrix operates the same way TS does, we started with TS and I had quirky problems until I gave everyone their own copy of the FE on the server (my version control utility handles that). My research indicated that things like front end tables are not kept separate, and my experience would back that up.

 

[Banana]

Hey, pbaldy-

Is there anyway you can back it up empirically? Mind you, I'm not doubting your expertise and you're probably way ahead of me here as I've been working with Citrix for one month and only used TS/RDT from a user's perspective but not from admin's perspective. It'd just be nice to have something to share with the IT people just in case.

Thanks!

 

[pbaldy]

The bit about front end tables not being kept separate? If so, I'll have to try and find it again.

 

[Banana]

Yes. I asked about that because though the Citrix guy assures me that it's a throwaway copy that nobody else will be using, I want to be absolutely sure that this is indeed the case and thus need a means of testing this and verifying whether it works the same with Citrix or not.

 

[pbaldy]

At the time we were using TS, so that's what my research was based on, but I'll see if I can find it again. It was also several years ago, so it's not inconceivable that they've changed how things work.

 

[boblarson]

Hey thanks guys for adding info. I do believe we have come upon a successful implementation scheme, which should help our users in their speed as well as make it easier for us.

We will continue to do nightly batch copies of the MDE files to their server (we're in Portland, OR and they are in Kentucky and Pittsburgh). So then, we will implement a script to copy the actual FE file to their Citrix location when they start an app, instead of using the same MDE file as is being done now. Doing so will let us send an updated frontend to their server at any time whereas now it is locked due to users being in the file. So each time they start an app, it will copy anew and then when they log out of Citrix it will destroy any files left which will be clean.

I think we've got it and it should help in several respects.

 

[CraigDolphin]

I still hate **itrix!

But my frustrations with it reduced remarkably when I switched to a laptop with a local copy of Access and got rid of the PNA-Agent file type associations.

K...sorry to distract! Carry on.

 

[boblarson]

I still hate **itrix!

But my frustrations with it reduced remarkably when I switched to a laptop with a local copy of Access and got rid of the PNA-Agent file type associations.

K...sorry to distract! Carry on.

You're FIRED! <lol>

 

[CraigDolphin]

If it means never having to wait for that damned citrix loading sequence again...I'd be close to breaking even

 

[Banana]

If that was God-awful, I'd think your IT guy who managed is the one who needs to be firing...

Maybe I totally lucked out, but my experience with Citrix has been reasonably satisfactory, though I don't deny there are some hurdles that we have to work around. (Developing a .mdb in that environment for one thing...)

 

[HiTechCoach]

I have been developing a supporting Citrix ,later also also TS, starting back in the since NT4

I do almost 95% of my development in a Citrix or RDP sessions.

I always split my databases. Every user has their own copy of the FE. I do it the same way for everything. It does not matter is it is a single machine, work group/peer-to-peer, domain. I treat the Citrix or TS server(s) as just another workstation.

FYI:

I have one client that has been using Citrix for many years. Their first desktops were 486 machines running Windows for Work groups 3.1. The serve was upgraded but the not the work stations. About 3 years ago they were running Office 2003 on Citrix/Win Server 2000 and the still has desktop machines running Win For Work groups 3.1! Office 2003 running on Windows for Work Groups would never have been possible without using Citrix or TS. When we updates to WinServer 2003, I got the to upgrade all the remain 486 desktops to new PC's running XP.

I still use a laptop running Win98 and an RDP client. It works great!

I also have clients that use WYSE thin clients to run Remote Desktop.

This may help:
Citrix / Remote Desktop – for an Access-developer

 

[HiTechCoach]

You may also find this useful:

Terminals

Terminals is a secure, multi tab terminal services/remote desktop client. It uses Terminal Services ActiveX Client (mstscax.dll).
The project started from the need of controlling multiple connections simultaneously. It is a complete replacement for the mstsc.exe (Terminal Services) client.

 

[boblarson]

You may also find this useful:

Terminals

Thanks Boyd, but we're kind of locked into Citrix as we are part of a very large East Coast bank and those decisions are made at a MUCH higher level than us.

 

[CraigDolphin]

Thanks for the links...an interesting read and some of the issues he mentioned strike a chord with my own experience as a victi...er, user... of citrix.

But there are more issues too....though I'm not saying these are necessarily inherant to citrix as they could also be partly due to our local implementation.

For example, lack of control over screen resolution means that a db setup on a 19 inch monitor cannot be scaled down by the user on a 17 inch monitor. Changing the native screen resolution seems to be ineffective at over-riding the resolution supplied by citrix.

Forget using the beep command to alert a user to an error. (Wav sounds are also not transmitted across the citrix network but I think that's a decision of our IT dept.) About now I'm tempted to use the on-timer event of a form to have the beep command execute every second or two just to piss off the IT people working near the server farm

And yeah, I've had forms irretrievably corrupted due to citrix's sensitivity to network errors.

Also, when a db has grown to a point where the storage quota for the db owner has been reached on the network server, the failure of further dataentry seems to be invisible to the user.

All I know is I get a nervous tick whenever someone mentions the word Citrix around me and, unless I'm careful, the next few minutes could easily fool someone into thinking I suffered from Tourette's Syndrome

 

[HiTechCoach]

Thanks Boyd, but we're kind of locked into Citrix as we are part of a very large East Coast bank and those decisions are made at a MUCH higher level than us.

Bob,

I should have been clearer. You can use Terminals as a client for TS/RDP, VNC, ICA/Citrix, and more.

I have had tabs opened with TS/RDP sessions, a ICA/Citrix Sessions, and a VNC sessions all at the same time!

This is also portal software. It will run off a USB drive without having to be installed into Windows! The config file that stores all my server settings is encrypted and password protect. This allows me to use it on any PC!

Check out the title bar in the image below:

 

[boblarson]

Well thanks for the clarification - we still can't do it as they don't just let us put whatever on. We would need to get clearance from the main headquarters, and given their propensity for doing things like that, the answer would almost assuredly be no.

 

[Rx_]

I see that this is an older post. Feel free to suggest a new thread:

Looking for a How-to article for my IT administrator using Citrix.
Citrix on Windows 2003 Server with an Access 2007 FE & BE is having the following issues.

Problem:
Post Access 2007 FE and BE on a shared server drive (same directory) for Citrix publication.
Assume running a benchmark report under these conditions.

Conditions and relative results:
1 user: FE on my XP Desktop linked to BE on the Windows 2003 Shared Server Drive
Results: 1 X seconds
1 user: FE on XP Desktop linked to BE on same XP (just for a non-networked benchmark)
Results: 1 X seconds
1 User: Citrix runs FE linked to same shared BE (nobody else is on, single user)
Results: 1.1 X seconds
3 Users: Citrix runs FE linked to same BE on server
Results 3.4 X seconds
3 Users on Citrix - with Me running on XP Desktop linked to same shared BE on server
Results 1X seconds

Note: Last result - during the multiple Citrix users, connecting to the BE is just as fast as a single user.

This indicates to me, that Citrix is serving up the same instance of the FE to multiple users.
Kind of like putting one FE on a network drive and giving three people shortcuts to it.
The file and resource management creates overhead. That is why we use to deploy a FE to each workstation and link it to a common BE.

What I am looking for is a good "how-to" article for my IT department for Citrix serving the Access FE.

What I feel should happen is: For each Citrix user, Citrix should make a copy of the FE and start an instance (or maybe the term is a virtual server) with its own resources for the session. At the end of the session, it would probably destroy the users virtual session instance.