Attack on Israel (5 Viewers)

[BlueSpruce]

Israel is trying very hard to not kill civilians. How many times do we have to mention that? Hamas keeps them hostage in the hopes that some will die in the attack. Israel warns ahead of time what will be targeted to give civilians a chance to escape. But Hamas needs human shields and forces civilians to stay. Is there some part of that you don't understand? Please try to confirm so you get it.

The Israeli hostages were the only remaining ace in the hole Hamas had. So now that Hamas is releasing the hostages, what is to prevent Israel from killing all Palestinians if Hamas doesn't disarm?

 

[Steve R.]

The Israeli hostages were the only remaining ace in the hole Hamas had.

By today's byzantine incomprehensible moral standards, the hostages could be considered the "remaining ace". Historically, that would not be the case. Israel, based on historic humanitarian standards, had moral justification to fully blockade Gaza until the hostages were released, Hamas disarmed, and Gaza surrendered. That is precisely what Israel should have done.

Better for the IDF to starve a few Palestinians in Gaza than suffer the casualties of urban warfare. Unfortunately, real world politics today, would not consider a blockade acceptable. The irony, Israel is still getting lambasted for fighting a "civil" war that minimizes casualties. Since Israel isn't getting any recognition for their humanitarian generosity, they should have bit the bullet and imposed a full blockade anyway. Israel would have suffered a lot less casualties.

 

[amorosik]

Morality is what the government and the army are losing
And unfortunately, a large part of the population follows them
And this is the worst thing, because a government can change, but if the majority of the population living in Israel thought that massacring a population was the only option, then I would say that Israel has lost any idea of humanity and has no future
I hope, and I hope for you, that this is not the case

 

[amorosik]

Israel is trying very hard to not kill civilians...

Oh yeah???
It's strange, he's not very good at it

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Morality is what the government and the army are losing

And unfortunately, a large part of the population follows them

Whereas Hamas lost all claims of morality when they massacred 1200 Israelis in a sneak attack on a holiday and then did nothing to reclaim any modicum of morality with their continued rocket attacks on Israel. And the Palestinians supported them.

Morality can also be determined by what happens next. When Hamas breaks the truce and starts the killing again, that is also a loss of morality. I am not a pessimist ALL of the time - but history has shown that pessimism isn't totally unreasonable in this case.

I am hopeful that this peace will last for a long time. Hopeful and yet skeptical.

 

[BlueSpruce]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Israel lowered its morale by going overboard on Palestinian civilians.

I am hopeful that this peace will last for a long time. Hopeful and yet skeptical.

There's no peace deal yet, only a cease fire. If Israel shares the same pessimism you have, there will never be long term peace. It must now worry about Iran and over a billion enraged Muslims around the world. For every action there's a reaction. The Iron Dome is not foolproof.

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Israel lowered its morale by going overboard on Palestinian civilians.

There's no peace deal yet, only a cease fire. If Israel shares the same pessimism you have, there will never be long term peace. It must now worry about Iran and over a billion enraged Muslims around the world. For every action there's a reaction. The Iron Dome is not foolproof.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Israel lowered its morale by going overboard on Palestinian civilians.

There's no peace deal yet, only a cease fire. If Israel shares the same pessimism you have, there will never be long term peace. It must now worry about Iran and over a billion enraged Muslims around the world. For every action there's a reaction. The Iron Dome is not foolproof.

And turning ones cheek with Hamas gets your head cut off. What would you do if someone went up to you and punched you? Israel has a right to defend itself.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

a billion enraged Muslims around the world

Except that the Afghanistan and Pakistan Muslims are occupied by hating each other at the level of exchange of gunfire. Or did you miss the recent border skirmishes? Those two brands of Islam can't get along with each other, which in my mind is a good thing for what it shows - the non-solidarity of Islam. But of course YOU want to focus on the conflict that allows you to show your poorly disguised anti-semitism. There is an old phrase and a modern variant thereof that expressly describes that situation. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And Hamas did it first. And then they discovered the newer phrase - what goes around comes around.

 

[amorosik]

Whereas Hamas lost all claims of morality when they massacred 1200 Israelis in a sneak attack

The number 1,200 refers approximately to the victims of that terrible day
Can you perhaps say how many of these victims fell to Palestinian fire?

TRT World - Israeli army killed own soldiers 'hesitant' to face Hamas on Oct. 7

Military investigation reveals that "friendly fires" killed unspecified number of Israeli soldiers who were "highly hesitant" to confront Palestinian resistance fighters on October 7 last year, local media say.

www.trtworld.com

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-inquiry-finds-oct-7-hostage-likely-killed-by-friendly-fire-2024-04-05/

Friendly fire may have killed their relatives on Oct. 7. These Israeli families want answers now

Relatives of civilians killed at a kibbutz in southern Israel during the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas are demanding the military immediately investigate signs that some may have been killed by Israeli security forces as they battled militants holding hostages

www.independent.co.uk

 

[amorosik]

Hopeful and yet skeptical.

100% agree

 

[BlueSpruce]

your poorly disguised anti-semitism.

My beef is with Israel's leadership, not its civilians nor the Jewish diaspora, who many of them have condemned Israel's actions. So your claim that I'm anti-semite has no validity. Don't be surprised if we start seeing a mass exodus of people from Israel who disagreed with their leaders actions. All Israel has done is awaken a sleeping giant named Islam. China and Russia are going to provide them weapons.

 

[ColinEssex]

If anybody needs any rubble, I know where you might get some cheap.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Unfortunately, Col, if someone in the USA tried to buy it, Trump would put a tariff on it, thus making it not so cheap any more. But nice try!

 

[Pat Hartman]

And unfortunately, a large part of the population follows them

And yet none of them want to go to live in Gaza. Funny, the Muslims who live in Israel, don't want to move to a Muslim country either. Go figure

Oh yeah???
It's strange, he's not very good at it

And why is that? Come on, tell us? Israel gives warning to Palestinians of what areas they are targeting. Why don't the civilians evacuate? Tell us. Surely you know the reason.

 

[amorosik]

"..none of them want to go to live in Gaza.."
Because the Israeli government and army have reduced it to an isolation camp?
.
You wrote that "...Israel is trying very hard not to kill civilians..."
I replied that it hasn't succeeded very well
Because hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed
What's not clear to you?
.
Or do you think warning that I'm killing you can justify anything?

 

[Pat Hartman]

What's not clear to you?

Sorry, but apparently, it is what's not clear to YOU. Hamas holds the civilians hostage at gunpoint to use them as human shields. So, the civilians can choose to die immediately by the bullets from their elected leaders or take a chance on the bullets from the Israelis meant for Hamas. Duh! Did you really not know that? Try getting your news from some source other than al Jazeera. Don't forget that Qatar is hosting the Hamas leaders in luxury so they are friends and support the Hamas cause.

 

[Pat Hartman]

"..none of them want to go to live in Gaza.."
Because the Israeli government and army have reduced it to an isolation camp?

They could have gone there 20 years ago when Israel cut Gaza loose. It was a nice enough place then. Thousands of Israelis had moved there but strangely, no "Palestinians". At least in any numbers.

 

[amorosik]

Sorry, but apparently, it is what's not clear to YOU. Hamas holds the civilians hostage at gunpoint to use them as human shields. So, the civilians can choose to die immediately by the bullets from their elected leaders or take a chance on the bullets from the Israelis meant for Hamas. Duh! Did you really not know that? Try getting your news from some source other than al Jazeera. Don't forget that Qatar is hosting the Hamas leaders in luxury so they are friends and support the Hamas cause.

"..can choose to die immediately by the bullets from their elected leaders.."
"..or take a chance on the bullets from the Israelis meant for Hamas.."
You're forgetting the third, more credible option: "...bullets from the Israelis to the Palestinians..."
.
And you're also forgetting that in Qatar, someone threw bombs DURING talks between several delegations
Something unheard of, and which clearly shows how much the current israelian government doesn't want to reach an agreement between the populations
.
It's clear to the entire world that coexistence doesn't matter; the israelis want the Palestinians' land

"..Don't forget that Qatar is hosting the Hamas leaders in luxury so they are friends and support the Hamas.."
Ah, so besides Netanyahu, Qatar also supports Hamas???

 

[Pat Hartman]

You're forgetting the third, more credible option: "...bullets from the Israelis to the Palestinians..."

What's the formula for these magic bullets that can avoid the human shields and hit the girly men hiding behind the women's skirts?

and which clearly shows how much the current israelian government doesn't want to reach an agreement between the populations

Who threw the bombs? Why do you assume that it was the Israeli's? Your antisemitism is leaking through.

It's clear to the entire world that coexistence doesn't matter; the israelis want the Palestinians' land

It is very clear to me that you have no knowledge of the history of the area. You could choose to educate yourself. I have certainly posted enough summaries and reference material. Or you can maintain your ignorant position based on zero historical evidence or even logic.

 

[amorosik]

What's the formula for these magic bullets that can avoid the human shields and hit the girly men hiding behind the women's skirts?

Who threw the bombs? Why do you assume that it was the Israeli's? Your antisemitism is leaking through.

Qatar strikes: What we know of Israel's attack on Hamas leaders in Doha

Israel carried out a strike on senior Hamas leaders in Qatar's capital Doha on Tuesday.

www.bbc.com

L'Onu condanna l'attacco di Israele ai negoziatori di Hamas a Doha - Vatican News

Dopo l'attacco israeliano che ha ucciso cinque esponenti di rango inferiore dell'organizzazione islamista a Doha, l'emiro del Qatar Al-Thani parla di ...

www.vaticannews.va

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-qatar-attack-09-09-25

Netanyahu | Attacco Doha? Nostra decisione indipendente

“La decisione di Israele di agire contro la leadership di Hamas in Qatar è stata una decisione indipendente di Israele, presa da me e dai vertici della sicurezza, è stata condotta da noi e ci assumiamo la piena responsabilità”.

www.zazoom.it

Perhaps you're not up to date on recent events
If the links above aren't enough, there are others


".. Your antisemitism.."
When you run out of reasons, then the anti-Semitic story begins
No, I don't give a damn about the Jews, I neither hate them nor love them
The main creator of anti-Semitic hatred right now is the Israeli government and army
.
I believe that this massacre of defenseless people, which is merely the culmination of an inhumane policy of segregation, food deprivation, the impossibility of movement, the impossibility of hoping for a better life for their children than the one their parents had, will be remembered as a deep wound in the soul of the Israelis, a wound that will be impossible to heal
.
Some prominent politicians, journalists, and intellectuals are openly speaking of Israel's suicide
And the responsibility lies entirely with the current government, and army which have followed their directives.
I would hope the Israeli people would break away from this racist and criminal vision, but I'm not sure that the indoctrination they are subjected to males and females from an early age, can enable them to develop feelings of peaceful coexistence with other populations of the world

It is very clear to me that you have no knowledge of the history of the area. You could choose to educate yourself. I have certainly posted enough summaries and reference material. Or you can maintain your ignorant position based on zero historical evidence or even logic.

Thank you for the advice; the invitation to learn more is always welcome
But I don't think you can teach anything about these topics.