Bank Charges

[scott-atkinson]

Well what do you know, some fat cat Lord with more money than sense and probably a vested interest in Banking has ruled that Excessive Bank Charges are not illegal and gone as far to say that Banks can pretty much charge what they want....

What a Bloody Farce...

Despite the fact that the Bank had been to court twice before and been told that their charges were illegal and unfair and were explicitly told that they could not appeal, decided to take their case to the Fat Cat House Of Lords who decided that they could appeal and what d'you know a Fat Cat Lord rules in their favour... and have told the OFT who bought the case that they can no longer pursue this matter...

Again what a bloody farce...

The banks not liking what they were told twice decided they would keep going until they heard something that they did like..

What they seem to forget that if it were'nt for their customers Tax they would not even be here anymore...

Again... What a Bloody Farce...

Makes you proud to be British eh...

 

[GaryPanic]

Chill-

While I agree with some (most) of what you say...
if you look at the UK banking system and compare it to other European countries - then it is not so bad

If you go over drawn in Greece it is fraud and a fine can /is issued

France 3 times over drawn and that's it no bank account (in any french bank)

miss two payments on a Spanish morgage and they reposses the property on the third missed payment .


However i don't think any judge would of said to the banks pay it back - as the banks would only get the monies from the tax payer - the state they are in -

I would not be surprised if this is the end of free banking
Chequees are being fazed out- soon it will be a charge to withdrawn monies from the cashpoint as well as paying for an account (which I have to anyway )

THe house of lords did not say that they could not follow this up - but they could not use the arguement they had used they would have to go down another route (Fair contracts --for those not in the know - the House of lords basically said as long as the charges are/were spelt out at the start of the contract - then you have agreed to this . and you cannot then argue that they are unfair - (potential loop hole- those who's orgainl contracts have lower bank charges could appeal)

Although i don't agree high bank charges -there should be some banding system to penailse those who blow their overdraft ( how about the fine matching the amount overdrawn ?) this then would be a fine in relation to the amount (- only applies to the amount in excess of the overdraft- so if you go 10.00 over then you have to pay £10 in a fee
5.00 over and 5.00 fee/fine - if you go over 250.00 then that's what you pay £250.00 - we are only talking about those who blow their overdraft which is a minority -
just an idea - must be better than what we have now

 

[Rich]

What about those customers that have enough funds in other accounts so the bank aren't lending them any money but then not only charge an overdraft fee but also od interest for the priviledge of using their own money in the way they want, frankly it stinks and then the lot of them are saved by the poor bloody taxpayer.

 

[Kryst51]

What about those customers that have enough funds in other accounts so the bank aren't lending them any money but then not only charge an overdraft fee but also od interest for the priviledge of using their own money in the way they want, frankly it stinks and then the lot of them are saved by the poor bloody taxpayer.

We get that here, I had an instance where I over drew one account by a few dollars, realized a few hours later, transferred the money online from another account with the same bank, and though the dates are the same, it was past the "cut-off" time, so I incurred an overdraft charge! It was only $10.00 but, when your on a tight budget like me, it made me mad

 

[oumahexi]

What I don't understand is who authorisises the "unauthorised" overdrafts? If you don't have an overdraft facility they shouldn't let you go into overdraft in the first place! I got caught once, never again, I now pay myself a "salary" out of my salary, if the preditors leave anything by the end of the month, I consider it a bonus and stick it into my savings. I have managed to accumulate almost a whole pound in the last year

 

[ColinEssex]

If you are a private (non-business) person and you stay out of the red and in the black you don't pay charges.

Col

 

[GaryPanic]

Would my idea of the charge for the amount over drawn work ...
if you go £10 in the red then that is what you are charged

its not your money if you go past your overdraft - its someone else's

 

[Pauldohert]

Would my idea of the charge for the amount over drawn work ...
if you go £10 in the red then that is what you are charged

its not your money if you go past your overdraft - its someone else's

No - was overdrawn of 1500 for a minute - as Rich says inter account - ie the bank had my money in credit.

You propose to fine me 1500 - the bank on this occasion waived it.
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[Pauldohert]

In the days of IT - a very small admin charge - like 2 quid should apply, then a usual loan amount of interest applied on the debt. (Work out the extortionate interest rate on some real examples, maquerading as overdraft fees, just to see how obscene the charges really are)

That covers the banks charges and even allows a small profit.

What is now is enforced usury.

This doesn't even need discussing - unless you are a crook in a bank or a judge on the make - no doubt.

 

[GaryPanic]

No - was overdrawn of 1500 for a minute - as Rich says inter account - ie the bank had my money in credit.

You propose to fine me 1500 - the bank on this occasion waived it.
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Banks of course should have the ability to waiver etc ---
how about a time scale so if o/d for more than 5 days then the fee/fine

 

[Rich]

Banks of course should have the ability to waiver etc ---
how about a time scale so if o/d for more than 5 days then the fee/fine

Banks got too large and greedy, this nonsence of taxpayers bailing them out to the tune of billions should have included the proviso of sacking the whole bloody lot of them at the top and capping by law their earnings.
This isn't the first time in history we've gone through this

 

[Pauldohert]

Gary a fair solution to both sides is so simple its not worth discussing.


Why banks are allowed to ignore fairness and acceptable profits - and basically be to be a price fixing cartel, and usurers on this may be worth discussing.

---

Similarly whether they should pay back historical charges now is complicated - - ie since they are state owned in many instances - everyone would be paying money to those who did't manage their money well enough previously. That doesn't seem right either.

I think Rich summed it up nicely - they have gotten away with to much for too long. Which makes the judges ruling even more perverse.

 

[Rabbie]

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.

 

[Pauldohert]

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.

It more of a forced loan - than theft.

ie I have expressly told them at the time I set up my account - I doint want any loans in the form of an overdaft. How when they do the opposite of what i asked is that theft?

They are in fact giving me a service I never asked for.

They should just refuse the payment and charge a reasonable fee and interest on that, for their trouble at most.

 

[Rich]

While agreeing that the banks are making extortionate charges that are completely disproportionate you must remember that going overdrawn without authorisation is in fact theft. You are taking money that does not belong to you. What is the difference between picking up money that is lying on someones desk and helping yourself to money from the bank that does not belong to you.

Are the banks so generous toward customers when they make mistakes with customers and their money?

 

[GaryPanic]

It more of a forced loan - than theft.

ie I have expressly told them at the time I set up my account - I doint want any loans in the form of an overdaft. How when they do the opposite of what i asked is that theft?

They are in fact giving me a service I never asked for.

They should just refuse the payment and charge a reasonable fee and interest on that, for their trouble at most.

then we are into what is reasonable and also if you have a standing order (say to your morgage and there isn't enought funds -by £1.00) they reject it then the morgage company will then fine you for not paying - ie you ahve an agreement wit them to fund the debt)

I am not defending the banks - but the system needs to be fair and level

if you go overdrawn then you are borrowing moneis - if you go over that it is theft -and some types of payment have to be honoured as they have already been debit by other banks etc ...

If they refused say paying the TV lincese then you in for 200+ fine and a criminal record - you would certainly say they have to honour this
or how about your council tax - again if you don't pay it then they will ask for all of it up front - more debit problems

While I agree the current system is flawed - no one has come up with an alternative that makes sense to both sides - Banks are not going to run at a loss -( that does not mean they should run at inflated profits either)

 

[Pauldohert]

then we are into what is reasonable and also if you have a standing order (say to your morgage and there isn't enought funds -by £1.00) they reject it then the morgage company will then fine you for not paying - ie you ahve an agreement wit them to fund the debt)

I am not defending the banks - but the system needs to be fair and level

if you go overdrawn then you are borrowing moneis - if you go over that it is theft -and some types of payment have to be honoured as they have already been debit by other banks etc ...

If they refused say paying the TV lincese then you in for 200+ fine and a criminal record - you would certainly say they have to honour this
or how about your council tax - again if you don't pay it then they will ask for all of it up front - more debit problems

While I agree the current system is flawed - no one has come up with an alternative that makes sense to both sides - Banks are not going to run at a loss -(that does not mean they should run at inflated profits either)

Yep - I asked them not to pay something if I did't have the money - its not theft if they do the opposite of what I requested - lets stop pretending it is, and they have no right paying debts on my behalf - and they have no right to charge me extortionate interest on a loan - I expressly said I did't want.

If i get fined elsewhere (the vast majority of my payments have no instant fine for a mistaken missed payment attached to them)- thats my problem - if I decide the bank charges are better - I will ask the bank for an overdraft. The fact is I didn't ask for the loan.

Of course a better solution exists - do what your customer asked you to do. Rather than profiteering off them by doing the opposite.

 

[GaryPanic]

Yep - I asked them not to pay something if I did't have the money - its not theft if they do the opposite of what I requested - lets stop pretending it is, and they have no right paying debts on my behalf - and they have no right to charge me extortionate interest on a loan - I expressly said I did't want.

If i get fined elsewhere (the vast majority of my payments have no instant fine for a mistaken missed payment attached to them)- thats my problem - if I decide the bank charges are better - I will ask the bank for an overdraft. The fact is I didn't ask for the loan.

Of course a better solution exists - do what your customer asked you to do. Rather than profiteering off them by doing the opposite.

That I totally agree with - however if payment on other items start to get missed they will impose fines/fees (probably along the lines of credit card % which really are a rip off)

g

 

[Pauldohert]

I dont propose anything but fairness to bothe sides - than bank and the customer - neither does that OFT, or even the judges.

The only people not interested in fairness are the banks. I wonder why not?

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/the-bank-charges-ruling-explained-1827327.html

Ho hum - I have only been caught once with this ever. Even so - its just not right.

 

[Len Boorman]

Maybe I am of the old school (well certainly old) but in days of old when we dealt in £sd if you did not have the money you could not spend it. In those days having the money meant exactly that. Coins in the pocket. (nobody had notes cos the smallest was 10bob.

So today when money is largely electronic if you spend money you do not have then perhaps you are spending mine!. If you have not agreed an overdraft expect to pay the price. Not what it costs the bank. If it was my money you had "borrowed" without agreeing with me first then it would cost you a great deal more than the bank charges.

Yes banks can waive charges. I had a cheque go astray. Bank charged me £20 to stop the check. We entered into a discussion and the bank agreed to waive the charge.

If you borrow money without asking and agreeing first then you have nothing on your side to persuade the bank to waive the charge. Maybe for first time on a very short period like same day then you have a point to make.

Sorry if my views upset some people but that's the way I see it.

I have been skint to the point where I used to ask ny Dad to cash a cheque for me.... but not to sibmit the cheque to his bank for a week so that my pay had cleared and sufficient funds existed so I am not totally unsympathetic. If you think you are going to need some support get it in place first.

Len