Clear out data

[AccessBlaster]

Okay Guys, lets back off the critique. @DakotaRidge has agreed his project needs to be split. That's a giant step in the right direction. Next step will be normalization. There's hope. I haven't lost faith.

I would normalize first, and try to understand why. Normalizing would cut the number of tables to be moved to the BE.

 

[LarryE]

It would be funny if we are all just being trolled. That seems way more likely than this is real.

Thought the same thing since post #1. Thousands of forms and reports and tables? Not likely, even if ACCESS does allow it.

 

[MajP]

Today, if I send folks 10 tables, 30 forms, and 20 reports to copy into BE and FE files, it won't get done

Yes in your world you could never get any benefit of splitting the db so you are correct there is no need to do so. In everyone else's world they can. In a real db there comes a time were the tables are 98% locked down for changes. You know what data you plan to capture. Now the FE will continue to grow as you create more forms, reports, queries, code and other functionality. You do not send the user forms, reports or anything else to import. You send them a new FE with new/update forms, reports, queries, and code.

Everyone once in a while in the real world you have to update the BE. Hopefully this is extremely rare. This may require them to give back the db so the developer can make changes. Or as a developer you have to make a complex tool to alter the DB and not mess up their data. Or a tool to migrate into the new db.

 

[MajP]

The easiest step right now is to split db, so let's now take that step since he agreed it makes sense to do so. Normalization will take much longer to do

There is no benefit in splitting the database. If the tables are changing all the time, what would you gain? How will that simplify anything?

 

[Isaac]

It would be funny if we are all just being trolled. That seems way more likely than this is real.

I was pondering this earlier while getting Taco Bell. There's got to be something he likes out of this (fact #1). Fact #2, the only thing he's getting in response is admonishments to do things differently. Put those 2 facts together.

What does he like from this? Generating a big hullabulloo, is what it seems like.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Until the OP uploads the database or at least a access relationships table view, it's all speculation as to what he's really doing.

 

[Isaac]

It feels like that, but trust me, it's real. Remember that not everyone's an experienced developer. How many improperly designed Access apos are out there?

I think there is a long reputation of posting like this, that's what we're getting at, it's not just this thread and the refusal to take any advice (which is impressive enough in its sheer magnitude), but a history of posting like this and not changing the mind on anything

 

[NauticalGent]

Proposal Mgmt apo with Access that now has thousands of objects and it hit the 2GB limit

...and yet...

 

[Isaac]

I've known @DakotaRidge ~10 years and he's a retired government Geologist with a Ph.D. who's an expert in managing huge gov proposals and contracts. He learned Access on his own and started developing a Proposal Mgmt apo with Access that now has thousands of objects and it hit the 2GB limit. He focused on the UI and did not worry about normalization, until now. Sometimes It s hard for ole folks like us to learn new tricks.

And yet, he felt the need to reincarnate his old account DenverDB into a new account, which is generally an activity reserved for trolls and not something legit people do

 

[Isaac]

I seriously doubt he intentionally did that to troll. He probably forgot he had that old account. My intention is to help him properly design and develop his apps. He has already shown willingness to split his db.

Anyone can judge for themselves the relative level of 'troll' that this situation is, by searching for DenverDB's old posts. It's a bunch of the same - 1000's of lines of talking about his 1000's of forms with everyone frustrated that he never took any advice.

 

[LarryE]

I've known @DakotaRidge ~10 years and he's a retired government Geologist with a Ph.D. who's an expert in managing huge gov proposals and contracts. He learned Access on his own and started developing a Proposal Mgmt app with Access that now has thousands of objects and it hit the 2GB limit. He focused on the UI and did not worry about normalization, until now. Sometimes It's hard for ole folks like us to learn new tricks.

Then he shouldn't be taken for granite and seems to be getting boulder.

 

[LarryE]

He's already agreed to split his db. What if I get him to normalize his db? Whether he does, or not, you always have the option to filter him out.

Geologist taken for granite and getting boulder....

 

[isladogs]

Okay Guys, let’s back off the critique. @DakotaRidge has agreed his project needs to be split. That's a giant step in the right direction. Next step will be normalization. There's hope. I haven't lost faith.

I disagree. Nowhere in this thread has he agreed to split his database.
We had the same interminable discussions with his proposals database. It never got implemented and indeed never went to production.
I very much doubt this will be any different. This database will likely remain for his personal use only

David is a nice guy. However, he is a master at stringing people along knowing everyone wants to help him, but having no intention of ever changing his approach.

 

[DakotaRidge]

Yesterday was an interesting and very good day for me. I went to the library with two of my grandsons where I read the current edition of the Kiplinger Personal Financial magazine. I found an article with a map showing states with no state tax. The article allowed me to create a new map in my Personal Finance and Health database.

Later in the day, I found a map prepared by the CDC that shows states with increasing incidences of Covid this summer. So, I created another map in my database. The CDC suggests ways that folks can address their exposure to new strains of Covid.

Then later in the day a professional troll hunter targeted me. He had discovered that I had had another AW account in the past. That’s true. I created a new account a few weeks ago when UtterAccess closed down shop. My old PC died in December, and I lost my AW password so I could not get into AW to ask questions of Access experts. I figured that as long as I was using only one AW account that it was okay. Who knew a troll hunter would come along and research my activity back several years.

I also had two UA accounts because the UA administrator had a problem with my first account, and he decided to create a new one for me.

Now my database has 556 forms, which the troll hunter thinks is excessive. I am sorry that I read a lot, and when I find useful ideas in the literature, I add new tables, forms, and reports to my database. My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

After adding new forms today, I reconfigured three of my custom navigation forms. I repositioned the command buttons that open forms that list Covid symptoms and symptoms of illnesses related to contaminated water in public pools.

 

[arnelgp]

My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

that is very small number i would say. Aim high, the more the merrier.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

Also Pete, I understand splitting, I have done it in the past. That's not the problem.

The big problem will be getting family members to manage a FE and a BE. I know that a single file is easier to work with than two.

Today, if I send folks 10 tables, 30 forms, and 20 reports to copy into BE and FE files, it won't get done. And if I send folks 30 tables tomorrow and 50 forms tomorrow, all I will hear will be crickets. You may say 10/30/20 and 30/50 is a lot, but I create lots of objects when I read textbooks, magazine articles, and research on the Web. Sorry about that.

The 550 forms in my database now could grow to 1000 in four months. The number of tables and reports may also double in number.

Some developers on AW tag me for not having a normalized database. But so far, no one has told me how to create DKNF tables. I see 3NF in the literature, but why should I leave holes in my database structure when I can do DKNF? That makes no sense to me.

Another problem is that no one knows how structured my database really is. They haven't seen the relationship map or used the database. They don't know what calculations it does and why. They have not listened to it talk. They have not used the graphics. I keep describing parts of the database, but it will take a thousand pages of text to do the application justice.

What should I do folks? I am inclined to continue creating tables, forms, and reports. The forms and reports need to have speech, graphics, and animation. Are there enhancements beyond that that I can make?

If you split the database, your users don't need to add any new forms. They just replace the old front end with a new front end.

If you want to add new data to their backend, you can give them a single process that inserts all the new data for them

It would just look like the way an install wizard works when you get a new version of any software you use.

 

[NauticalGent]

David is a nice guy. However, he is a master at stringing people along knowing everyone wants to help him, but having no intention of ever changing his approach.

that is very small number i would say. Aim high, the more the merrier.

 

[MajP]

Now my database has 556 forms, which the troll hunter thinks is excessive. I am sorry that I read a lot, and when I find useful ideas in the literature, I add new tables, forms, and reports to my database. My goal is to end 2025 with a thousand forms, and equal numbers of reports and tables.

The part you do not get is that I guarantee I could take your database and keep all the current functionality and provide way more capability and do it with probably 20 forms, 20 tables, and 10 reports. Just a tad easier to maintain.

 

[MajP]

can he consolidate all those objects and provide desired functionality without having to write vba code

The only way you can have that many forms is that most of these forms are all doing the same thing. Maybe a different sort order, or filter, or visible controls etc. That is why I can rebuild this application with 20 different forms and modify them at runtime. If OP says they are not are all unique then it is a lie.
Can you modify them at runtime using macros? Maybe a little. I can probably write some working code using only one finger to type and closing both eyes. However, I chose not to handicap myself that severely. That seems really painful to attempt. To me using only macros would be equivalent to trying to build an application, but only typing with my eyes closed. The question is not can it be done, it is who in the hell would want to.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Chatty could untangle this in about 2 seconds, I reckon.