Deleted!

[Deleted member 167235]

 

[theDBguy]

Hi Ben. Welcome to AWF!

Sorry, links are not allowed for new members to deter spammers. I'll check it out...

 

[isladogs]

Hi Ben
Welcome to the forum.

This is a very ambitious project you have embarked upon but I'm somewhat concerned about its purpose.
Many developers including myself supply projects as ACCDE files.
If you are able to supply a method by which anyone can reverse that process, it undermines the whole point of creating compiled code in the first place. What, if any, safeguards do you intend to attach to your code?

I am aware of the long established ACCDE to ACCDB conversion service available from Wayne Phillips at EverythingAccess.com. However, that is a paid service and he will only proceed if proof of ownership is supplied. That appears to be totally different from what you are working on.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I will also add a general warning that reverse-assemblers / disassemblers may violate EULAs on products. Therefore, before anyone attempts to do any reverse engineering, double-check the legality of what you are about to do because it may well be illegal. For example, if you bought a commercial program that happens to be powered by Access Run-Time, running a disassembler might lead to copyright violations or other legal safeguards. Disassembly of VBA byte code may well run afoul of the MS EULA that goes with Office (any version). You DON'T want Microsoft on your tail. Trust me on that fine point.

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

Disassembly of the bytecode stored in SRP streams is easy enough but of no value if the VBA code is purged.... There are other methods to achieve this using the right approach but cannot be discussed here... Remember IDA Pro is your best friend if you know how to make maximum use of it

 

[gemma-the-husky]

@isladogs
I use the code protector from everything access, which removes all trace of variable names from disassembled projects, thus making the code much less readable. Just in case. It only takes a few seconds to process any mde/accde

 

[GPGeorge]

I think that this tool can be really useful (if access version support would have better) for cases where you have a previous version of accdb file, but the most up to date version has been lost

Can you guarantee that would be the only use for it?

 

[GPGeorge]

Can you guarantee that would be the only use for it?

I can't, since it is an open source project...

Therein lies the significant concerns people have expressed about the appropriateness of the project. See The_Doc_Man's comments in particular.

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

I will also add a general warning that reverse-assemblers / disassemblers may violate EULAs on products. Therefore, before anyone attempts to do any reverse engineering, double-check the legality of what you are about to do because it may well be illegal. For example, if you bought a commercial program that happens to be powered by Access Run-Time, running a disassembler might lead to copyright violations or other legal safeguards. Disassembly of VBA byte code may well run afoul of the MS EULA that goes with Office (any version). You DON'T want Microsoft on your tail. Trust me on that fine point.

Different countries have different rules; many dont have any legislation for RE both software & hardware.

Here is a plain English explanation of the Reverse Engineering Prohibited clause:
- The Receiving Party is the party getting software, prototypes or other tangible items from the Disclosing Party.
- The Receiving Party agrees not to reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble these items.
- Reverse engineering means taking something apart to see how it works.
- Decompiling and disassembling mean similar things, like converting back to source code.
- The Receiving Party cannot try to do these things to discover trade secrets.
- However, they may reverse engineer only if the law specifically allows it, despite this clause.
- The purpose is to protect the Disclosing Party's intellectual property and trade secrets.
- It prevents the Receiving Party from stealing proprietary information through reverse engineering.
- But it permits reverse engineering in limited cases where laws expressly authorize it.

All well and good but we can work within proxies and legally not be challenged or face prosecution where countries do not cover RE in law..

A good example i remember many years ago when sky card cloning was done using hardware only available to legally use in the Isle of Man. Once cloned remotely we could not be prosecuted and shipping to UK was not illigal too. The use of the card though was considered theft which is a different law all together.

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

@BenKuperstein A product like this opens you up to a lawsuit if your tool is used to break into an application by anyone other than the original developer. That is why Wayne insists on proof of ownership before decompiling the database you send to him. So, you probably want to think twice about what you have done by releasing the source code.

A lawsuit would not stand in any country by providing such a tool. A 3rd party making use of it is a different thing altogether.

 

[GPGeorge]

A lawsuit would not stand in any country by providing such a tool.

Spoiler:

A 3rd party making use of it is a different thing altogether.

Could you elaborate on that statement, which doesn't parse very well logically. What does it mean?

 

[sonic8]

What does it mean?

Neither selling nor buying a hammer is a crime.
Using the hammer to smash other peoples' property very well is.

 

[GPGeorge]

Neither selling nor buying a hammer is a crime.
Using the hammer to smash other peoples' property very well is.

That explanation is a good a translation. Thanks.

 

[BlueSpruce]

I was just going to say that providing the disassembled code to AI generates good quality source code. AI is a double-edged sword.

 

[Cotswold]

I wonder what the primary object of this is.
There is an easy foolproof solution to retaining and not losing your latest version of an Access application and that is called a sound backup system. A start would be maybe not keeping all of your backups in a drawer under the computer. Then advance from there.
There is the old computer adage from way back and that is: You cannot be too thin, too rich, or have too many backups.

An open source project, if successful, it has been suggested could aid the unscrupulous to obtain the source belonging to the owner with the sole
intention of depriving them of income. There have been numerous posts on many forums seeking an Access decompiler, claiming they have lost their own source and only have the mde/accde. Many, if not all have been directed as Isladogs reiterated in #4. Just how many responded that "they paid the fee to Everythingaccess.com to decompile their own code and thank you for your advice". So just what does anyone deduce from that?
Most, if not all software in their T&Cs, will have a statement refusing decomplication, as well as the condition that the user purchases only the use of the software and does not have actual ownership. Which remains with the supplier.

Should it be that in this case, the seeking of praise and help on this forum for this project be totally ignored?

 

[BlueSpruce]

here is an easy foolproof solution to retaining and not losing your latest version of an Access application and that is called a sound backup system.

Unfortunately, not everyone makes regular backups, or they simply never had the source code to begin with because their vendor never provided it, or the developer who is long gone didn't provided it. I lost count on how many times customers approached me with those circumstances. However, AI is now a game changer. If you really want to prevent someone from illegally obtaining source code, use a development language, like cpp, that doesn't compile to intermediate pCode like VBA.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

There is the old computer adage from way back and that is: You cannot be too thin, too rich, or have too many backups.

However, by act of the USA Congress, you CAN have too many backups, because they passed regulations about disposing of backups more than 10 years old. Apparently, Congress doesn't believe in old adages as much as other groups might.

 

[DickyP]

However, by act of the USA Congress, you CAN have too many backups, because they passed regulations about disposing of backups more than 10 years old. Apparently, Congress doesn't believe in old adages as much as other groups might.

I have only one comment here which explains everything - and it's just one word.

POLITICIANS

 

[sonic8]

However, by act of the USA Congress, you CAN have too many backups, because they passed regulations about disposing of backups more than 10 years old.

Can you provide a source for this?
It seams rather illogical to me that there is a regulation ordering the disposal of backups. I cannot google any reference to this.
What did show up in my cursory research however, are regulations about adhering to due process when records are disposed. - This is very different from what your statement suggests.

In my jurisdiction it is a common scenario that records must be kept for 10 years according to legal regulations. As the GDPR stipulates that records of PII must be destroyed when no longer relevant, this implicitly means that PII data must be destroyed after 10 years if it was retained only to comply with the duty to preserve records for 10 years.
(Whether this requirement also extends to backups of that data is still debated frequently. From my point of view it does not.)

 

[dalski]

After spending a year developing my own application intended for .accde at initial launch this is the last thing I want to see. Credit to the author a beautiful brain. Did anyone try it out?