Did I make a fool of myself

[gemma-the-husky]

Well I think I would have told him to get lost!

I don’t think I would have put it quite that bluntly, but that’s the general attitude I would have taken. You were attending an interview for an MS access job, not to see if you would be any good in the pub quiz team!

Let me ask you an intelligence question I once heard:
A small boy he lives in a block of flats, when he goes to school in the morning he takes the lift, when he comes home at night, he takes the lift and stops at the fourth floor, then takes to the stairs to complete his journey home. Why?

another old one - cos he's a small boy - i'll leave it at that

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Yes correct Dave, however it’s an interesting question because as an IQ test question it doesn’t work. To answer the question you have to have firsthand knowledge of how lifts work. If you don’t have this knowledge then you can’t answer the question, and what’s that got to do with your intelligence?

It’s the same as if someone decided to ask all the interview questions in French, it’s just not a fair test.

Let me present you with another question:
A man is putting a new driveway in his garden. He fills the wheelbarrow with rubble, then wheels the wheelbarrow 20 yards up the road, turns round and comes back, then pushes the wheelbarrow up the scaffold board and tips the contents into the waiting skip. He then jumps off the skip with the wheelbarrow crosses the road a distance of not more than half a dozen yards back to his drive and commences the process again.

Why did he go 20 yards out of his way?

 

[Galaxiom]

Why did he go 20 yards out of his way?

He needed the runup to get up the ramp?

He would have to cross formwork or wet concrete to get the high side of the skip by any other path but could jump it down on the low side?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I have some experience from the "other side" of the interview table that might offer some insight. Or might not.

Some years ago and at least five or six employers ago, I used to be the HR programmer liaison for my company because the HR department knew they weren't qualified to determine the suitability of programmer candidates. I used to ask questions like that, but I actually didn't care if anything they wrote ran or was excruciatingly correct. I wanted to see who would try to bamboozle me. You would (or maybe wouldn't) be surprised at the silly answers I got.

I told them up front that I was on a fishing expedition to try to identify what they knew and what they didn't. I warned them that my questions were probably not what they expected, and I even told them that I was more interested in their approach than actual results. But the ones who didn't listen and who protested the questions were the ones who told me exactly what I needed to know ahead of time. The ones who said, "I didn't study that in school, but I can look it up in a library if it becomes necessary" were the ones who got the job. They admitted their limitations and didn't try to "blow smoke" as the phrase goes.

I'm not saying that is what happened to you, DCrake, but I remember folks saying that my interview was the toughest one they ever had to take. Many folks admitted that I scared them. The ones that got hired were told exactly why they were hired - mostly because they didn't try to lie and claim an ability they didn't have. It was their honesty in admitting their abilities that convinced us.

In fact, one of my real success stories was a young woman who came to the US from Taiwan. In her home, she was a student of cooking and home economics. She wanted to change careers and took some computer courses to support that change. I gave her my usual interview and fished around. She was one who walked out thinking, "Oh what a mistake I made coming here, I'll never get a job in programming."

I surprised her (and a lot of others) because I recommended her for immediate hire. Why? Because she didn't have a portfolio of programs. Instead, she showed us a book she had co-authored on the subject of Imperial Chinese Cuisine, essentially recipes from historical times. She showed diligence, meticulous attention to detail, a good approach to explaining what needed to be done in a formulaic way, and the ability to finish a daunting project. Who wouldn't want such a person on their team?

Over thirty years later, she is still in the business and is now a manager of her own group. And a friend.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

He needed the runup to get up the ramp?

That's a good answer but not the one I'm looking for.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

He would have to cross formwork or wet concrete to get the high side of the skip by any other path but could jump it down on the low side?

That's a good answer and a very good answer, very near what I am looking for but not quite right.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I saw some MS Access tests posted on the Internet somewhere, and the nature of the question was something like “where would you find such and such a button for doing such and such a task” in other words how good are you at getting around the interface. I didn't have a clue; I couldn’t answer the question, not without sitting in front of a machine, not because I didn’t know, when I’m sat in front of the machine I know exactly where it is, it’s because my memory is what they term “kinetic” I record my memory as a set of actions. If you ask me a phone number, I can’t recite it back to you, but give me a piece of paper and a pen and I will write it down.

I think the real answer to your question is; does the person asking the questions have any idea what they are doing?

Some excellent comments there from Doc_man, giving an insight into the other side of the interview table.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

uncle gizmo - the wheelbarrow

I can only think there were maybe two routes, one long and gradual, the other steeper, and he couldn't use the steeper route with a full wheel barrow. Maybe a hill involved as well - but I can't visualize quite how!

 

[DCrake]

Similar to the boy in the lift:

A man lives on the 30th floor of a block of flats, when the sun shines he get off the lift at the 26th floor and walks the rest using the stairs, however when it rains he goes all the way to the 30th floor. Why?

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

uncle gizmo - the wheelbarrow

I can only think there were maybe two routes, one long and gradual, the other steeper, and he couldn't use the steeper route with a full wheel barrow. Maybe a hill involved as well - but I can't visualize quite how!

Very very close!
Now think about roads, pavements, changes in levels.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Similar to the boy in the lift:

A man lives on the 30th floor of a block of flats, when the sun shines he get off the lift at the 26th floor and walks the rest using the stairs, however when it rains he goes all the way to the 30th floor. Why?

It’s one of these modern lifts, all glass construction; it operates very much like a greenhouse during the day when it’s sunny the temperature builds up to an unbearable level in the upper levels.

 

[DCrake]

He only had one plank so he had to go down the road until he got to the place in the pavement where the kerb had been lowered.

 

[DCrake]

It’s one of these modern lifts, all glass construction; it operates very much like a greenhouse during the day when it’s sunny the temperature builds up to an unbearable level in the upper levels.

Sorry, no where near.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Similar to the boy in the lift:

A man lives on the 30th floor of a block of flats, when the sun shines he get off the lift at the 26th floor and walks the rest using the stairs, however when it rains he goes all the way to the 30th floor. Why?

He takes the stairs when the sun shines because each landing stage has a window which looks out on the verandas of the flats. The young ladies are all out on their verandas sunbathing.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

He only had one plank so he had to go down the road until he got to the place in the pavement where the kerb had been lowered.

I reckon that's good enough Dave ....


The wheelbarrow question isn’t any question I actually heard anywhere, it’s actually me Wheeling stuff and depositing it in the skip. This was a few years back when I was young and fit, I had recently heard the problem of the little boy in the elevator and I realised that I could use my skip filling experience to demonstrate that firsthand knowledge is required.

If you place the skip in the road then you need a skip licence, you are also required to make sure the skip is “lighted” at night, has a red light one end and a white light the other. To avoid getting a licence it was always desirable to place a skip somewhere off the road, if you were lucky enough to have a wide pavement, a pavement which also incorporated a grass strip, then this was the ideal place to put the skip.

The problem is that the skip is now at pavement level, in other words there is a kerb to mount if you want to gain access with your wheelbarrow. There are several solutions to this problem, the one I favoured in this particular case was to go up the road a short distance until I found a dropped kerb, an entrance to a neighbour’s drive, use that slope to mount the pavement and then yes you have a nice run up to the ramp straight into the skip!

 

[Galaxiom]

Ah. He is concreting the driveway so there is a step up to the road. But this would not be particularly large comparded to the clmb into the skip so he could easily ramp this.

Maybe he has to use the gate at the other end of the driveway?

I notice though that the original question says "he crosses the road" on the way back. I think this must be the key.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

"he crosses the road"

Yes, that is an important part of the question; the skip has to be on the other side of the road. If the skip was on the same side of the road then you are already at pavement level, in other words you would not need to mount a kerb to gain access to the skip.

 

[Galaxiom]

I have pushed heavy barrows a lot. One certainly trys to avoid steep gradients but momentum is the key factor in selecting a path. It is surprising how high the barrow will ascend if it can get moving fast enough.

 

[Lightwave]

All I can say is that if I was looking for database access expertise and I needed someone really good. Simply knowing your background on the forums would 95% get the job. I would want to meet with them just to make sure there's not a personality clash but other than that probably academic. And age would not be an issue. Older maybe better as young person might be flighty.

Kind of fun puzzles though. But I agree you need quiet to work through those things. Took me ten to figure out the bucket thing.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

A few years ago my company, primarily a gravel delivery company decided to undertake domestic clearance work. Basically removing rubbish from people’s gardens.

At this time government had introduced new legislation whereby for each and every job you had to provide a risk assessment before undertaking any work. Our insurers also provided a consultation service where if you had a particular problem with writing up your risk assessment you could ask them for advice.

My concern was that I would be employing labourers to operate wheelbarrows, I wondered if I should include in the risk assessment how the wheelbarrow should be operated.

When I rang them up and ask them they fell around laughing! I still think I was right, a wheelbarrow is quite a dangerous item and its operation should be discussed and thought through thoroughly. Mind you I did understand why they laughed!