Has America Imploded? (1 Viewer)

AccessBlaster

Registered User.
Local time
Yesterday, 16:10
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
5,976
Some folks in the alt media are claiming during the capitol building attack on Wednesday embedded Antifa operatives are now in possession of Nancy Pelosi's laptop. Nancy's laptop was in fact taken see here.

This might be the year of the missing laptops, you may remember the full contents of Hunter Biden's laptops have yet to be exposed.
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
The contents of that laptop may be suppressed on Twitter and FaceBook, deemed Russia misinformation.
 

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
4,751
Were you not making the point that because Trump has multiple accusers, it is unlikely that they all lied?
I was. That's correct.
 

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
4,751
America seems quite unique in the complete freedom of speech issue. I think most other countries moderate what you can or can't say. The problem I have with it is the levels of moderation, which have become a slippery slope. Reasonable restrictions - such as banning racial chanting of monkey noises at football matches - has been outlawed. It still seems to go on in Italy, Spain and Russia quite a bit.
No. I think most Americans just don't understand what that right means. The right protects from government officials, not private corporations. There are conditions to that of course, such as the "fire" in a movie theater or "bomb" on a plane points. But even in those cases, it's not the speech that would get you arrested so much as inciting panic.
 

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,703
We are entering an updated version of the French Revolution's Reign of Terror. So far, less the guillotine. Soon we will be seeing members of the the Democratic Party's para-military "Committee on Public Safety" roaming the streets rounding up apostates to send off to "reeducation camps" who don't swear allegiance to the Democratic Party theocracy. Sitting Congresswoman AOC Promotes ‘Enemies List’ Of Trump Supporters So They Can’t ‘Deny Their Complicity’. The cleansing will soon begin. Be prepared.

Video: Glenn Greenwald: Big Tech, Biden set to wage 'new War on Terror' Jason Whitlock: Social media is baiting America into civil war
 
Last edited:

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
4,751
That must be some good Kool-aid. Strawberry?
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
No. I think most Americans just don't understand what that right means.
I cannot comment on what most Americans understand regarding this. All I can say is that the Americans I have spoken to seem to understand the concept fine. They may not be a representative sample, but do anyone of us have one?

It seems like we are missing the mark here, whether deliberately or not. As I understand it, you cannot scream racist abuse in someones face in America. Is that correct? You certainly can't in the UK. The issue which I and many Conservatives agree on is that the ever increasing encroachment over what you can or cannot say is leading to a highly policed society, rather like China. It is a bit like bringing the speed limit down so low that everyone breaks the law. By continually redefining acceptability, you oppress others freedom of expression. Everyday communication consequently becomes a minefield. And you blunt humour, which is often based on pain.

Another area is where you overprioritise the rights of a tiny group so that they are not offended, but in the process piss-off the vast majority of people. Take the transgendered in sports. I won't attribute a gender because we have over 70 of them now, just to confuse everybody. You have biological men having sex changes and then trouncing the women in sports events. It has become a farce. You have the transgendered in female prisons raping women. How things are going, I can see a man claiming to identify as woman being allowed to go to a female prison instead, without any transgendered modifications. Anything less will be seen as discrimination against the rights of the biological man to have the gender identity of a woman. Next we will have grown men claiming to identify as being a child, hanging around the toilets at the local school.

The slippery slope is a very real phenomena.

The way forward, as I see it, is tolerance. Instead of seeking (faux) offence, understand that people may say things that inadvertently offend. People put their foot in it all the time. In a thread somewhere on this forum, I recently cited the case about the footballer Cavani. He used a commonly used phrase, considered perfectly acceptable in Uruguay, and spoken in Spanish, saying, "Gracias Negrita". The UK Football Association, after extensive investigation, said they did not think he had any intention of being racist at all. He was just thanking a friend of his for their kind comments towards him. Yet he gets fined £100K and a 3 match ban because it might potentially offend, in some circumstances. Plus they want him to go on an awareness course on racism. The poor guy has only been in the UK for about 2 or 3 months. If you get punched in the head by someone in the UK, you just get a warning the first time, no fine. The offences hardly seem comparable.

This is where I see the danger of political organisations like BLM. The Football Association or rather the Premier League coverage, has Black Lives Matter at the top of all games at the beginning of the match. Then everyone is taking the knee. In that context, everybody goes overboard in dealing with people like Cavani. I personally think, as I have said many times on this forum, that BLM is a racist organisation, starting with the name. If it was Black Lives Matter Too, I would have no problem with that because I agree with the sentiment. But it doesn't say that. So, you end up with vast numbers of people thinking that if you are Black, you should have preferential treatment. This is racism.

I understand very well the history of racism towards Blacks, slavery over the centuries and the unequal treatment. But this is about perspective. No one seems to care about the Jews. They were also put into bondage and slavery in death camps during the Second World War. Over 6 million of them. Jews are white. But it was racism because they were perceived to be a race of their own, the Jewish race. Death camps aside, there were about 11 million foreigners put into forced labour during the war, mostly white. This is also slavery. So in more recent times, there was way more slavery amongst white people than black. These are inconvenient truths. [Edit: I am not sure if they included the 6 million exterminated Jews in the 11 million foreigners figure or not.]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this just came to me as I am typing this out. I've often felt the Jews get a hard time. Strangely, and I don't know if this is common in the US like it is in the UK, but the left seem to have lots of anti-semitism within its ranks. The UK Labour party was investigated for it recently and the findings were damanging. With the lefts focus on racial issues, I find this contradictory.

I'm interested in hearing arguments from those who think that there was more black slavery in the last 100 or so years than white slavery. It is assumed that slavery and blacks is synonymous and that if you mention white slaves, you are some kind of denier and a white supremacist. But lets talk with facts rather than slurs. Where did I get it wrong? I am interested to know.

Imagine it the other way around. If 6 million blacks were exterminated during the war, and 11 million put into forced labour, but the whites were demanding reparations for slavery for what happened further back in history, would those from the black community think the whites case was stronger and that the black community should trump up the money?
 
Last edited:

Steve R.

Retired
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,703
No. I think most Americans just don't understand what that right means. The right protects from government officials, not private corporations. There are conditions to that of course, such as the "fire" in a movie theater or "bomb" on a plane points. But even in those cases, it's not the speech that would get you arrested so much as inciting panic.
There is a slippery slope to the concern of free-speech and private enterprise. It is recognized by many for example, that you can't irresponsibly be shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater when there no fire. But there are a lot of areas were private companies really have no right to interfere with what a person is doing. Assertions, that being a private companies grants automatic privilege to squelch content is simplistic and disingenuous.
  • For a short period of time, there were occasional cases of ISP provider "A" refusing to allow content streaming through ISP provider "B" to be passed to the recipient.
  • Do UPS and FedEx have the right to open your package on any whimsical basis and/or to not to deliver a package to a specific address?
  • What happens if your electric, water, sewer company don't like your politics. Can they cut you off?
  • You wear a Black Lives Matter tea-shirt into a store. Can you be tossed out for displaying offensive content?
  • Can a phone company listen into your private conversations? Can they prevent from calling certain people? What about your TV? What about all the devices like Amazon Alexa?
  • Can a cabal of companies conspire to put certain businesses, like Parler, out-of-business?
An additional thought concerning the concept of private property. This may not be considered directly related to private property and free-speech but does imply significant concerns. Some people believe that their private property rights extend to outside of their property. To explain. Person "A" has a house on a hill with a nice view of the ocean. Further down the hill, Person "B" owns a lot with some trees on it. A few years go by. The trees grow. Person "A" now sues person "B" on the basis that his/her view of the ocean has been blocked thereby depriving that person ("A") of his/her view and also adversely affecting person's "A" property value. In terms of free-speech, we are seeing some similar actions in that people claim that they are offended when they see something they don't like (a MAGA hat for example) in a public area. And that people should not be allowed to display "offensive" material even if it is in a public area.
 
Last edited:

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
Can a cabal of companies conspire to put certain businesses, like Parler, out-of-business?
I just saw on the news that there is footage of the guy with cable ties discussing invading the US Capitol on FaceBook. Does that mean Facebook is going to cancel themselves now?
 
Last edited:

Pat Hartman

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
43,352
I think most other countries moderate what you can or can't say.
Other countries don't have a first amendment that guarantees it. The POINT of guaranteeing free speech is that it isn't guaranteeing speech we like. It is guaranteeing speech we don't like. Modifying it means someone is now judging what can be said and what can't be said. There is a general consensus that you can't yell "fire" in a crowed room since that actually endangers people nor can you incite violence unless you are a liberal. People like Maxine Waters can incite violence but Trump can't incite peaceful protest. MLK could invite peaceful protest but not Trump. This is all part of the hypocrisy of the left. They have rules for people they like and rules for people they don't like. They enforce laws against people they don't like but they don't enforce those laws for the exact same crime against people the do like. Believe the women!!!!! Oh, that's just Joe being Joe.
I disagree with that comment Pat.
I was referring to Canada, not the UK. Take a look at how the Nazis operated in the beginning. That's where the US is today. It is not coming. It has arrived.

As to big tech. They now control the US and if the rest of the world sits by, they will soon be pushing Chinese Communist rules on the rest of you also. It is one thing to cancel the President of the United States of America and another to band together to cancel Parler. Essentially, these companies have more power than the US Government. The US Government can't cancel people but apparently Google and Apple can. They just effectively cancelled 75 MILLION people in one fell swoop. Trump couldn't even stop the use of the Chinese spying apps. So those are still with us. Watch what you say, Big Brother is watching you. The Chinese are punishing people who say things that are not approved. What do you thing big Tech did last month. They silenced people who said something of which they disapproved. The Democrats are making lists and are hell-bent on punishing anyone who supported Trump. This is not some talking head's opinion. We are seeing their tweets and also video of them explaining just how they plan to cancel conservatives. You may not be seeing this on TV but at the moment, big tech hasn't convinced the cable companies to drop Fox and the other conservative networks but can that be far behind? They are certainly pushing the issue. Already we have major companies today saying that they'll stop advertising and campaign donations to conservatives. 75 MILLION PEOPLE are being erased right before our eyes.
 
Last edited:

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
My understanding is that Canada is quite a far-left country, with Justin Trudeau making continual ethics violations while refusing to answer questions when repeatedly investigated by his own government. One rule for thee but not for me.

I keep mixing up Justin Trudeau with Kevin Trudeau, the fraudster. They both look similar and both are fraudsters.

Kevin:


Justin:



They look the same person to me!
 
Last edited:

AccessBlaster

Registered User.
Local time
Yesterday, 16:10
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
5,976

MLK: A riot is the language of the unheard​

Three years after "I Have a Dream" and the March on Washington, Dr. King talked with Mike Wallace about divisions in the Civil Rights movement.
 

Pat Hartman

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
43,352
As I understand it, you cannot scream racist abuse in someones face in America. Is that correct?
No. You can scream it all you want. If you do it multiple times, the person you are attacking can probably get a restraining order. If you do it at a party, you'll probably never be invited anywhere again and be asked to leave that one. But the kids chant of "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." is the general rule. If you speak publicly or write publiclly, you can be sued for slander or libel.
The way forward, as I see it, is tolerance.
I agree but the left does not. Conservatives are generally tolerant. Liberals are not. If you disagree with the current position, they will do their best to cancel you even if you are one of them. Just look at what happened to Tulsi Gabbard who was the only sane person in the whole Democrat primary field. Big tech cancelled her because she was getting too many searches based on her debate performance. She is such an honest and conscientious person that she felt that she couldn't in good conscience run for both the House and President at the same time so she ended up loosing her house seat because of her bid for President.
As I write this, Nancy Pelosi is on TV calling for the castration, oops, I mean impeachment of Trump again.
I recently cited the case about the footballer Cavani.
We have the same situation here on this forum. I inadvertently insulted Colin and he chooses to ignore my apologies and keeps pressing the issue.
but the left seem to have lots of anti-Semitism within its ranks.
That's true here also but the Democrats say they are not anti-Semitic so they must not be. They would never lie to us about something like that, would they? Most of my Jewish friends are liberals rather than conservatives and I've never quite figured that out.
I'm interested in hearing arguments from those who think that there was more black slavery in the last 100 or so years than white slavery.
Sex slavery has no bounds but most slavery today is concentrated in Africa. It is black on black or Muslim on everyone. The Koran condones slavery. I have mentioned here more than once that during my time in Kuwait, I had an escaped sex slave living with me. Sadly, my husband and I couldn't protect her and I still feel for her even today.
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum that although Tusi Gabbard is a Democrat, she seems to talk a lot of sense to me. I watched her very recently in an interview with Rubin.

Yes, I forgot about the sex slave trade. What I am really talking about regarding the slavery issue is what is perceived as black slavery with white masters. Yet what about the Jewish slavery with white masters? The Jews were also white, but they were perceived as a separate race. It would be great for some others to step up to the plate and tackle this thorny issue. If the Jews were oppressed and murdered in the millions, why is there only a call for reparations for blacks? Maybe because the Jewish slavery happened in Germany rather than in the US. Perhaps that is the distinction.

Can anyone confirm or deny that there were more white slaves (with white masters) than black slaves (with white masters) in the last 100 years? What do the stats say? I've had a look and the numbers seem to support more white slaves, but I might be missing something and would like to know what that is, if anything.
 
Last edited:

Pat Hartman

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
43,352
she seems to talk a lot of sense to me.
She'll never go anywhere in the Democrat Party. She has to switch to being a Republican to get anyone to listen to her. She's too moderate and has too much common sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jon

Isaac

Lifelong Learner
Local time
Yesterday, 16:10
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
8,778
Everyone is wrong. Follow me, and I will lead you to paradise.
 

Jon

Access World Site Owner
Staff member
Local time
Today, 00:10
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Messages
7,413
Are you a pusher? I need my fix.
 

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
4,751
We still have legal slavery. It's called American prison. Why do you think the judges get so many kickbacks for ridiculous sentences for minor crimes?

Pat is right, you can scream whatever you want. Of course, there can be consequences. You might get attacked. You might get charged, not for you're speech, but for what you incite, of something happens. Free speech has some limits based on if a crime results in that speech.

To Pat's point, you may not be invited to a persons house again based on that speech as that persons private domain is their domain. You can proceed to boycott that person and some may follow you, but that person still had that right. The same can be said of a private business entity. It's up to them. It may result in losing other customers, but they still retain that right.

Free speech protects you from government censorship only, provided that speech doesn't result in another crime.
 

Pat Hartman

Super Moderator
Staff member
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
43,352
I did evict one of my husband's golfing buddies from a party at our house when he insulted my favorite bridge partner with a "chink" joke. I am pretty tolerant but when you insult someone in my house, it is my place to defend them.

What big tech has escalated to is not free speech. It is the actual crime of "collusion" as they use their monopoly to impose their will on others. They completely removed Parler's source of income. Think about it. This is not like some religious baker refusing to bake a wedding cake with a homosexual theme. this is cancelling the gay couple's wedding because you don't approve!!!!
 
Last edited:

Vassago

Former Staff Turned AWF Retiree
Local time
Yesterday, 19:10
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
4,751
I did evict one of my husband's golfing buddies from a party at our house when he insulted my favorite bridge partner with a "chink" joke. I am pretty tolerant but when you insult someone in my house, it is my place to defend them.
No doubt. And if you owned a business, be it online or B&M, you would retain that right. You wouldn't even need a reason to kick someone out provided it wasn't for one of the protected class reasons. The owners of Twitter can do the same.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom