Islam - Pure and Simple

[ColinEssex]

A term used over here referring to the mid-day break at elementary schools when children are allowed outside for a bit to play on the playground.

oh right. Thats almost as obscure as the kitten thing posted earlier.

Col

 

[Rich]

Most all the time.

Must be when we're asleep

 

[MrsGorilla]

Must be when we're asleep

Could be. You seem to be asleep sometimes even when you're here.

 

[Rich]

Could be. You seem to be asleep sometimes even when you're here.

Are you suggesting that some of the posts by your fellow countrymen are that boring?

 

[MrsGorilla]

Are you suggesting that some of the posts by your fellow countrymen are that boring?

It does get boring reading the same thing over and over. Why don't you tell me, doesn't it get dull typing the same things over and over?

 

[dan-cat]

A term used over here referring to the mid-day break at elementary schools when children are allowed outside for a bit to play on the playground.

or philosophical schools in this case...

 

[dan-cat]

Definitely under-appreciated around here.

Which, by the way, many of us are I think.

Cindy you're appreciated by me...

well when you laugh at my crappy jokes anyway

...and yes I've been released from VBS duty wooohoooo... heathen times are here again...

 

[Rich]

doesn't it get dull typing the same things over and over?

Yes it's a thankless task but when you're up against brainwashing........

 

[aziz rasul]

For those who have requested a copy of my book, I have sent it by email on Saturday morning. If you haven’t received it let me know. Enjoy.

I sincerely hope that you are note citing some Qur'anic passage as proof (in part, at least) of the existence of a Supreme Being? If so, I'll go join Richard Dawkins in the corner and maybe we can sharpen each others' teeth. I'd like to know what you consider "evidence" as, to me, one deistic religion is as hokey as the next due to the lack of evidence and the complete surrender to faith that, in turn, illicits foolish obstinacy.

The evidence of the Creator, for me, is based in matching Science and Scripture. Hence in short if we can prove that the Qur'an is authentic and without contradictions then we can confidentially study the laws of God. I believe it is only the Qur'an and the TEN commandments that remain authentic from when they were first revealed.

Here are some more Qur’anic passages to ponder on i.e. from science we know from the scientific discoveries of the last century that the early universe was a gaseous one (due to high temperatures) and Edwin Hubble proved that the universe is expanding.

Moreover He comprehended in His design the heaven, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
Qur’an - Surah Fussilat (Explained in Detail) 41:11 See also 2:29 and 13:2.

“The heaven, We have built it with (Our creative) power. Verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.”
Qur’an - Surah az-Zaariyat (The Winnowing Winds) 51:47

Verse 41:11 indicates a gaseous universe that existed in time past. The earth did not exist as a physical entity in the early universe.

Verse 51:47 shows that the outer space is expanding but not the objects within it.

The Qur'an also refers to the SIX days of creation. This is unfortunately a misunderstood subject as many Jews\Christians\Muslims regard this as 24 hour days, which they are not. Again, I discuss this in detail in my book.

How far back in the past?

People are reverting as I write.

Sunni or Shi'a?

I classify myself as a MUSLIM who follows the Qur'an and the Hadith (sayings) of the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad (Peace and Allah's blessings be upon him). The Hadith is referred to as the Sunnah (example) of the prophet.

 

[Rich]

Verse 51:47 shows that the outer space is expanding but not the objects within it.

That's not accurate though is it?

 

[aziz rasul]

What kind of accuracy are you seeking?

 

[Rich]

The facts are enough

 

[aziz rasul]

The facts are that the: -

universe began by an explosion (21:30)
early universe was a gaseous one (41:11)
universe is expanding (51:47)

Here's another fact, that the Moon and the Sun have an orbit: -

“(God) is the One Who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:33

 

[Rich]

So there were early astronomers, that doesn't actually proove anything

 

[aziz rasul]

Can you tell us which early astronomers they were and did they actually discover these things?

The earliest that I know that the 3 verses I gave were discovered in the late 1920's or early 1930's i.e. people like Alexander Friedmann, Monsignor George Henri Lemaitre, Edwin Hubble, etc. In fact Albert Einstein originally believed in a static universe and was only convinced afterwards by Lemaitre.

The Qur'an was revealed 1400 years ago!

 

[Brianwarnock]

Here's another fact, that the Moon and the Sun have an orbit: -

“(God) is the One Who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:33

I notice that it doesn't say the Earth has an orbit, so is this back to that old belief that the sun travelled round the Earth?

Brian

 

[aziz rasul]

Originally Posted by Brianwarnock "I notice that it doesn't say the Earth has an orbit, so is this back to that old belief that the sun travelled round the Earth?"

Brian, what do think about the fact that the Qur'an states the moon and the sun have orbits?

As to the Earth's orbit, not sure whether the Qur'an mentions this, but assuming for the sake of argument for now that it doesn't, this is no reason to assume that Islam says that the Sun orbit's the Earth. If the Qur'an did say such a thing, I would certainly question it.

If I find any info on the Earth's orbit, I'll post it.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I think, infact are pretty damn sure, that all the old religions and peoples believed that the Sun and Moon orbited the Earth, so the fact that the Qur'an states that they have an orbit is not clever, in the case of the Sun it may be born of ignorance, this is not a criticism but a fact, what infact does the Sun orbit? Please help my ignorance.

Brian

 

[aziz rasul]

The Sun orbits (along with it's planetary system) the milky way galaxy and completes it in approximately over 200 million years. Hence I would have thought that the Qur'an IS clever. There is no record of anyone that I know in the past that said the Sun had an orbit. Don't you?

I think, infact are pretty damn sure, that all the old religions and peoples believed that the Sun and Moon orbited the Earth,

But the Qur'an doesn't say that the Sun orbits the Earth. People can say what they want. What matters is what scripture says. If the Qur'an, in this case, said that the Sun orbits the Earth, then you could justify your point, not otherwise surely.

 

[ColinEssex]

Partially? Gee thanks. If you would pay more attention, I think you would find a great many of us are open to learning about others' cultures and beliefs...

Sadly, when we try to help, it just gets spurned as being anti-USA.
I don't know of many US posters here who will even admit to having a less than 100% knowlege of world affairs going back to the 1600's.

Col