Locherbie RIP

[Rich]

or a Briton called King Edward VIII

He wasn't a member of the SS

 

[oumahexi]

He wasn't a member of the SS

I'm sure he didn't invent rocket propelled shavers either.

 

[Alc]

I think it's the same in America. The Americans still see themselves as "Irish"; "Polish"; "Italian" and so on even though their fifth sixth generation.

It does appear to be drummed into people more that they can't 'just' be American. If at all possible, they feel a need to stress 'African-American', 'Irish-American', etc. As Namliam wrote, at what point down the line are you going to accept that you're American and leave it there? Children, Grandchildren? Great-great-great-grandchildren?

I don't ever remember hearing anyone claiming to be 'Italian-British' or 'Indian-British'. Everyone I grew up with whose parents or grandparents came from somewhere outside the UK quite rightly regarded themselves as being as British as I am.

 

[Rich]

I'm sure he didn't invent rocket propelled shavers either.

Did he use a simple cut throat?

 

[dan-cat]

He wasn't a member of the SS

There never was an SS branch in the Bahamas either.

 

[Rabbie]

Yes please!

If I murder someone I can expect to be out in what? 3 years? Because, obviously, I'm going to be on my best behaviour. So, I do my 3 years and find that it's no big deal, I might as well do it again, after all the lust for blood beckons. Next time I do what? 3 years again? After all, at my trial they are not allowed to bring up previous offences, are they? Ack, but, what the hell, in for a penny, I might as well just get all that blood lust satisfied while I'm out...

Then again, I guess if you're going to get hanged for it you also might as well take as many people out first as you can manage.

Certainly, they should never, ever, (ever infinity) be allowed out until their time is served.

They are not allowed to bring up your previous offences when they are deciding if you are guilty or not guilty. They DO take them into account when sentencing you.

Until you can find a way of reversing a hanging when it becomes clear the original verdict was wrong I will oppose capital punishment.

I suspect people do not think of the consequebces when they kill some-one. So I don't think it is a big deterrent anyway. The murder rate hasn't increased a lot since the abolishment of hanging

 

[Alc]

Until you can find a way of reversing a hanging when it becomes clear the original verdict was wrong I will oppose capital punishment.

I suspect people do not think of the consequebces when they kill some-one. So I don't think it is a big deterrent anyway. The murder rate hasn't increased a lot since the abolishment of hanging

With you, there. I do believe that some people deserve severe punishment, but that's usually the result of emotions running high when I hear about certain crimes. Since even DNA evidence can be flawed, I'm vefry wary of death sentences.

If I remember correctly, aren't most murders committed in the heat of the moment? I understood this was the reason given for people continuing to murder eve when they're well aware of the penalties? How do murder rates in, for example, US states where the death penalty exists vary - if at all - from states where it doesn't exist? Unless there's a notable drop in the former, I don't see that there's a real case for it as any kind of a deterrent.

 

[Kryst51]

With you, there. I do believe that some people deserve severe punishment, but that's usually the result of emotions running high when I hear about certain crimes. Since even DNA evidence can be flawed, I'm vefry wary of death sentences.

If I remember correctly, aren't most murders committed in the heat of the moment? I understood this was the reason given for people continuing to murder eve when they're well aware of the penalties? How do murder rates in, for example, US states where the death penalty exists vary - if at all - from states where it doesn't exist? Unless there's a notable drop in the former, I don't see that there's a real case for it as any kind of a deterrent.

I do agree with the death penalty, I don't think it should be applied liberally however, by any means, I think it should be a last resort kind of penalty. However to remain fair and give the facts. I found this information on the National Institue for Corrections website: http://www.nicic.org/features/statestats/?State=TX

Edit:2007 Crime Rate for Texas
The crime rate in Texas is about 19% higher than the national average rate. Property crimes account for around 89% of the crime rate in Texas which is 21% higher than the national rate. The remaining 13.7% are violent crimes and are about 9% higher than other states. The following graph shows how Texas compared to the rest of the states.

Texas National Avg. Crime Rates (2007) 4,632 3,731 Violent Crimes 511 467 Property Crimes 4,121 3,264

 

[Alc]

I do agree with the death penalty, I don't think it should be applied liberally however, by any means, I think it should be a last resort kind of penalty. However to remain fair and give the facts. I found this information on the National Institue for Corrections website: http://www.nicic.org/features/statestats/?State=TX

Edit:2007 Crime Rate for Texas
The crime rate in Texas is about 19% higher than the national average rate. Property crimes account for around 89% of the crime rate in Texas which is 21% higher than the national rate. The remaining 13.7% are violent crimes and are about 9% higher than other states. The following graph shows how Texas compared to the rest of the states.

Texas National Avg. Crime Rates (2007) 4,632 3,731 Violent Crimes 511 467 Property Crimes 4,121 3,264

Curiosity: How is the death penalty 'sold' to Texans? Is it an 'eye for an eye' sort of thing? I've heard it argued in the past that it's cheaper than keeping someone in prison, but Texas is marginally higher than the national average. It doesn't seem that the whole deterrent argument applies.

 

[Kryst51]

Curiosity: How is the death penalty 'sold' to Texans? Is it an 'eye for an eye' sort of thing? I've heard it argued in the past that it's cheaper than keeping someone in prison, but Texas is marginally higher than the national average. It doesn't seem that the whole deterrent argument applies.

I have no idea how it's sold, I spent most of my adult life in Connecticut. It is only my opinion that some crimes, and only under certain circumstances should warrant the death penalty. But I also am not sure if my opinion is right. My sense of justice thinks that if someone does not reform, and continues to murder, then they should get the death penalty. But I sometimes think that that idea is wrong. Probably not for the reasons you think though. More out of the thought that my opinion may be a sign of hubris, who am I to decide for God (or the people put in place to judge such matters) also, God is a God of mercy, if the person were killed, his chance for reform and salvation (I know not many people will see this point my way, just explaining my thought process.) is gone. I don't wish hell on anybody, nor do I want to presume that I know what God wants in this matter. "Eye for an eye" thing is completely taken out of context here, and is used incorrectly all the time to justify vengeful and violent acts (I think this is probably what most Texans use as justification in their minds). For me it is a heart issue that needs to be worked out my sinful pride versus God's plan and mercy. Wow how I have rambled.

 

[Rich]

There never was an SS branch in the Bahamas either.

Are you absolutely sure of that?

 

[oumahexi]

Well done Adam Sandler! Regardless of his view, you have to admire the fact that he made a comment when asked a very sensitive question here in the UK.

Christine Blakely : "Do you think the Lockerby bomber should have been released?"
Adam Sandler : "I'd be happy if he were dead"

Regardless of whether you agree with his comment, that took guts.

 

[Rich]

Who's Adam Sandler?

 

[oumahexi]

Who's Adam Sandler?

You're kidding me right? You know who von Braun is but not Sandler? Dear oh dear

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001191/

 

[Rabbie]

Well done Adam Sandler! Regardless of his view, you have to admire the fact that he made a comment when asked a very sensitive question here in the UK.

Christine Blakely : "Do you think the Lockerby bomber should have been released?"
Adam Sandler : "I'd be happy if he were dead"

Regardless of whether you agree with his comment, that took guts.

Given the diagnosis of advanced prostate cancer Mr Sandler's going to be happy soon

I don't think it takes guts to say what he did - just a touch of vengefulness.

The oft quoted "eye for an eye" was originally setting a maximum not a minimum. This was to prevent blood feuds escalating out of control.

 

[oumahexi]

Given the diagnosis of advanced prostate cancer Mr Sandler's going to be happy soon

I don't think it takes guts to say what he did - just a touch of vengefulness.

The oft quoted "eye for an eye" was originally setting a maximum not a minimum. This was to prevent blood feuds escalating out of control.

Yeah, but brave because it could have ended his career! Public opinion, when you're a movie star...

 

[GaryPanic]

I have no idea how it's sold, I spent most of my adult life in Connecticut. It is only my opinion that some crimes, and only under certain circumstances should warrant the death penalty. But I also am not sure if my opinion is right. My sense of justice thinks that if someone does not reform, and continues to murder, then they should get the death penalty. But I sometimes think that that idea is wrong. Probably not for the reasons you think though. More out of the thought that my opinion may be a sign of hubris, who am I to decide for God (or the people put in place to judge such matters) also, God is a God of mercy, if the person were killed, his chance for reform and salvation (I know not many people will see this point my way, just explaining my thought process.) is gone. I don't wish hell on anybody, nor do I want to presume that I know what God wants in this matter. "Eye for an eye" thing is completely taken out of context here, and is used incorrectly all the time to justify vengeful and violent acts (I think this is probably what most Texans use as justification in their minds). For me it is a heart issue that needs to be worked out my sinful pride versus God's plan and mercy. Wow how I have rambled.

thats some ramble - for my 2pence worth -

i am for the death penalty - but not as punishment - but as a means of culling the herd -

if a dog was too agresive towards people - thneyou would not want that to breed through(guard dogs the exception) - same with people ..
a little bit cold i know and i am probably in the minorirty here in the UK - but there are some reall nutters out there that need removing...

 

[oumahexi]

All sarcasm aside, I am talking not about people who go abroad at a later age.
People who emigrate (willingly I might add) do usually have a language problem ...

Not that oh say a dutch man (or atleast not me) would think to emigrate to France without speeking French... Or to the US without talking English...
For some reason there are these people that go work/live abroad without speaking the language of where they are going... Even English people I see sometimes starting a new (on TV) in Spain or France running into trouble for not speaking the local language, HOW STRANGE is it that you run into trouble if you do not speak the local language???

However this language when you go abroad at say age 25-30 is and always will be your second language.
The "next" generation born in that very country though shouldnt have such a big problem as they will enjoy their education in this "new land". They however have heavely influenced by their parents and thus might still have (some) understandable hinderence from this.

HOWEVER I am talking about the 4th or even 5th generation of "foreigners" that STILL regard their "home land" as beeing their "home" dispite living here since birth...
Dispite their grandparents having lived here since birth...
They still regard themselves Chinese, Turkish, Indian, Marrocan

If I were to go to say Spain, sure I will always be Dutch... My Children should problably feel part dutch as they have been raised partially in holland and are "near enough" to be dutch... But at some point spanish is going to have to be "the rule" right?? You are just putting your children in the back seat if you insist they talk dutch at home... While they have to learn and earn a living in Spanish? I just dont get this...

I know exactly what you mean MailMan, and like Alane said, the British seem to think that everywhere will speak English. They do, mostly on the Continent they speak English, but why should they? Visitors should at least show that they are willing to try and speak the language of the country that is willing to offer them a living.

But I also am not sure if my opinion is right.

It is your opinion! Save it until it changes naturally, don't ever change it on the behest of another.

My sense of justice thinks that if someone does not reform, and continues to murder, then they should get the death penalty. But I sometimes think that that idea is wrong. Probably not for the reasons you think though. More out of the thought that my opinion may be a sign of hubris, who am I to decide for God (or the people put in place to judge such matters) also, God is a God of mercy, if the person were killed, his chance for reform and salvation (I know not many people will see this point my way, just explaining my thought process.) is gone. I don't wish hell on anybody, nor do I want to presume that I know what God wants in this matter. "Eye for an eye" thing is completely taken out of context here, and is used incorrectly all the time to justify vengeful and violent acts (I think this is probably what most Texans use as justification in their minds). For me it is a heart issue that needs to be worked out my sinful pride versus God's plan and mercy. Wow how I have rambled.

You have to ask though, would a God want someone, say, harming children? Forget the eye for an eye business, psychology has shown that there are some people who, for one reason or another cannot or will not change. If you believe in God and you belive in heaven and hell, then you must believe in the devil, who's to say these people are not the devils spawn?

a little bit cold i know and i am probably in the minorirty here in the UK - but there are some reall nutters out there that need removing...

Welcome to the minority side Gary. I'm not convinced that people don't believe in the death penalty so much as having been brain washed with all this mamsy pamsy political correctness. If people wan to act like animals treat them that way.

 

[Rich]

Welcome to the minority side Gary. I'm not convinced that people don't believe in the death penalty so much as having been brain washed with all this mamsy pamsy political correctness. If people wan to act like animals treat them that way.

An eye for an eye then?

 

[Pauldohert]

An eye for an eye then?

In the case of child molesters you could castrate them. My wife was puzzled to why they were only chemically castrated, as she said they could still use their hands???!?