Modernizing the Access User Experience

[Thales750]

Same as Pat - not any of the ones I work with. They do do a lot of remote work, though - widespread in my clients.
All I have to do for that is rent some AWS or virtual private servers, though.

With some exception. I did have a client a few years ago that wanted more mobile device stuff, so for him I used Google Sheets with AppSheet. It worked well enough for simple data entry forms and simple reports.

Do you have a preferred service you use? With the Appsheet did you connect the data to your databases?

 

[Isaac]

@Thales750
Honestly back when I did this work I used Google Sheets as the back end. Partly this decision I made was due to Appsheet's licensing structure at the time, which they have changed, like...5 times since then. At the time they were just getting started, and really appreciated their customers more - I believe if your back end was Sheets at that time, licensing was free if you had a small # of users, which I did. I remember days when I actually got support emails back directly from Praveen, one of the founders, not sure if he still there.

Now their licensing structures have changed, but also more powerful - sql server is totally an available back end. I have no knowledge or skill in how to "open up" a sql server to that type of access, so I haven't used it like that, but they connect to a lot of great db's.

Appsheet's capabilities are also 100x what they once were. When I was using it they didn't even have push notifications! So I guess con razon now they charge a bit more.

I used to do some work for a major construction consulting firm. We used access, sql server and some web programming platforms a lot. I don't remember mobile apps being a part of it, but then again, like you said - 'mobile device' which is more expansive. I guess they just used laptops, as well as perhaps tablets that ran MS Programs (surface etc).

Appsheet's web-based dev is really awesome - and loads of fun. live simulator on the right hand side of the screen to simulate any screen size.

 

[Thales750]

If you mean that they use notepads, say notepads. I did mention that those had large enough screen areas to be somewhat useful for viewing at least. Any app I build with Access can be run on a notepad that runs an appropriate browser if I am using Citrix or RD as long as I mind the form size.

Even a laptop is a "mobile device" as long as your battery is charged and you have an internet connection. So pretty much anything except your desktop and refrigerator are mobile. "Mobile" devices are more like phones, watches, and handheld scanners.

Yeah, not so much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_device

I mean they use Apps on mobile devises, they use browsers on any mobile devise, they store all of their company data on the cloud and they access it from mobile devices, the cloud doesn't care which platform, or screen size. And yes, if they have their refrigerators wired as IoT then they access them from mobile devises.

I'm trying to figure out way to survive and grow in the post desktop era. Pretending the rock hasn't fallen yet is not the way to make a future.

 

[Isaac]

I'm trying to figure out way to survive and grow in the post desktop era

Me too. I'm taking an 8 hr course on Power Apps in a few days.
App in a Day | UBTI (ubtiinc.com)

 

[JMongi]

I'm trying to figure out way to survive and grow in the post desktop era. Pretending the rock hasn't fallen yet is not the way to make a future.

No one is suggesting to the contrary. I'm not sure what bee got in your bonnet, but I would suggest slightly less bombast and more figuring out what you do and do not know and the proper way of talking about it. This little tete-a-tete about mobile devices is pedantic and is missing the point entirely.

I didn't say phone, I said mobile devises.
They do everything from sales and marketing to project management. Even restaurants have cloud based systems, where the management can have live updates from anywhere.

Cloud based infrastructure does not equate to mobile devices. Cellular phones were "mobile devices" long before they were upgraded to smart phone status. Tablets are still mobile devices even if they never once connect to WiFI or cellular service. Cloud based (i.e. centrally networked storage repositories accessed remotely via a network connection) have been around practically since the beginning of the computer. "Cloud based" is just a marketing buzzword that has certain modern connotations associated with it.

I mean they use Apps on mobile devises, they use browsers on any mobile devise, they store all of their company data on the cloud and they access it from mobile devices, the cloud doesn't care which platform, or screen size. And yes, if they have their refrigerators wired as IoT then they access them from mobile devises.

I'm trying to figure out way to survive and grow in the post desktop era. Pretending the rock hasn't fallen yet is not the way to make a future.

I work for a small company. We do not store all our company data on the cloud and our president might actually have a stroke if someone suggested we do so. I know of very few small businesses that store their company data on the cloud. Some do, certainly not all. Plus, companies that do so are willing to pay for such a system and as Pat mentioned earlier, that's the real rub. The infrastructure to run Access over the web exists (Citrix, RDS, etc) but has real costs associated with it.

My company took forever to decide to upgrade to the cloud based version of Quickbooks despite the increase in data availability/functionality. Why? Because they didn't want their data in the cloud and they didn't want to pay the subscription service fee.

So, as Pat and others have pointed out. It isn't that Access CAN'T be used over the internet, or through a web browser on a mobile device. It's that doing so requires extra layers and extra cost that goes contrary to the target audience for Access in the first place. Build the functionality directly into Access and we can go about our day.

 

[Isaac]

i've never personally been able to convince a small client to pay for Citrix, nor to maintain extra PC boxes sitting around (an office somewhere?) or something - and then RDP into those. however I have been able to convince them to use virtual machines and RDP into those.

also, my own application/interest/usefulness/niche for Power Apps is exclusively in the mega-large, corporate atmosphere..........in my opinion, THAT is where the hammer is fallen, and 1/2 of the major ones I've worked for are very close to officially banning Access forever, they've just seen too many failures. It is in this environment that Power Apps is my career-saver, or will be as I learn it more.
(and yes - it is hilarious that corporate america actually believes the result of hobby developers creating power apps will be any different than the past was with hobby developers creating access apps - but we say Yes Sir and move on....)

I'm in a P.A. seminar now - they're telling me like I'm 3 yrs old which is just what I need...........

In the next few months, Microsoft is cutting the licensing fees in half (i.e. 10 user/40 app, 5 user/20 app). I predicted in a recent post - that if MS wants this to become the next big thing, its costs will have to evolve and include many more options

 

[JMongi]

Looking at my previous post, I guess I had a bee in MY bonnet too! Been a rough morning. Apologize for the tone! Cheers

 

[CJ_London]

I'm not convinced that cloud solutions are really more cost effective than access over citrix or terminal server. Basis of licencing varies enormously but there is still a cost - and weigh that against inability to bespoke (except at additional cost) and complexities of communicating with other systems, etc often means additional costs and/or inefficiencies.

As the saying goes - 'nobody gets fired for recommending SAP'

 

[Minty]

As the saying goes - 'nobody gets fired for recommending SAP'

Many many moons ago Screwfix (a DIY hardware supply company in the UK) made the switch to SAP.
I have it on very good authority that it brought them within about a month of the business going bust, due to the enormous clusterf**k that the project turned into.

A similar story with Bosch, we couldn't order spares for 6 weeks when they switched over to it.
We were told it would be 3 days.

 

[CJ_London]

been there, done that - one of my clients (a multinational) had 3 SAP systems, one around stock control, another around receipts and payments and an accounting system. The first two came from a different background concept, each competing to be the owner of the primary key. Point is they were unable to communicate directly with each other resulting in a lot of money disappearing down the cracks - we are talking 9 digit money - every year.

I wrote them an Access solution that was able to reconcile some 95% of the differences and identify the remaining 5% for manual resolution.

I've had several clients over the years who have struggled with new systems (cloud based or otherwise) meeting the actual needs of the company. Usually down to a poorly executed fact find on actual requirements and/or budgetary constraints.

 

[JMongi]

I'm not convinced that cloud solutions are really more cost effective than access over citrix or terminal server. Basis of licencing varies enormously but there is still a cost - and weigh that against inability to bespoke (except at additional cost) and complexities of communicating with other systems, etc often means additional costs and/or inefficiencies.

As the saying goes - 'nobody gets fired for recommending SAP'

Which is entirely the point, right? They both cost a lot! It's quite a ROI problem for a small business that wants to do things the "right" way instead of shoehorning all their data into Excel. They seem to be moving (glacially) into addressing some of the needs to leverage Access in a mobile world, but, the licensing ("free" power apps vs. paid) is erecting the same financial barrier that made Access the solution of choice for so many over the years.

And I have additional anecdotes of LARGE companies that tried to kill themselves off by switching to SAP. Stepping into my own personal opinion now, I would hazard a guess that if there is motivation to transition to a new data infrastructure, that is quite possibly a symptom of the problem of unenforced business practices that transitioning to a new system will only exacerbate as opposed to fix. Which is why the transition can have a tendency to push companies to the brink.

 

[CJ_London]

there is also the scenario - new boss/new IT director/whatever wants to make a mark and make changes - whether they are required or not.

 

[JMongi]

That is true.
In my brother's company (probably considered a mid-size business, though they have multiple manufacturing facilities around the world). They can't (or won't) force an entire business group in another country to format their CAD data in the way so that it actually works with their PDM (Product Data Management) software they paid mega bucks precisely to standardize for interoperability.

I'm not usually the one advocating for one-size fits all business procedures. BUT, IF you decided to do this thing, AND you spent a ton of money in order to do it, WHY are you reluctant to MAKE people do it the way its supposed to be.

The same thing happens at small companies too. One company I worked for had paid for an MRP system. When they first converted they didn't fully understand it all, or tried to shoehorn their old way of doing things instead of adapting to the new way (before my time). Then, years later they want to use some of the cooler aspects of a true MRP system, they couldn't because they'd already put the wrong data in the wrong spots out of "convenience" and it was way to much time to actually fix it (at least, in one go).

Ok. We're far afield from the original thread topic now.

 

[Thales750]

No one is suggesting to the contrary. I'm not sure what bee got in your bonnet, but I would suggest slightly less bombast and more figuring out what you do and do not know and the proper way of talking about it. This little tete-a-tete about mobile devices is pedantic and is missing the point entirely.


Cloud based infrastructure does not equate to mobile devices. Cellular phones were "mobile devices" long before they were upgraded to smart phone status. Tablets are still mobile devices even if they never once connect to WiFI or cellular service. Cloud based (i.e. centrally networked storage repositories accessed remotely via a network connection) have been around practically since the beginning of the computer. "Cloud based" is just a marketing buzzword that has certain modern connotations associated with it.


I work for a small company. We do not store all our company data on the cloud and our president might actually have a stroke if someone suggested we do so. I know of very few small businesses that store their company data on the cloud. Some do, certainly not all. Plus, companies that do so are willing to pay for such a system and as Pat mentioned earlier, that's the real rub. The infrastructure to run Access over the web exists (Citrix, RDS, etc) but has real costs associated with it.

My company took forever to decide to upgrade to the cloud based version of Quickbooks despite the increase in data availability/functionality. Why? Because they didn't want their data in the cloud and they didn't want to pay the subscription service fee.

So, as Pat and others have pointed out. It isn't that Access CAN'T be used over the internet, or through a web browser on a mobile device. It's that doing so requires extra layers and extra cost that goes contrary to the target audience for Access in the first place. Build the functionality directly into Access and we can go about our day.

Pedantic? Nothing like stating the obvious and missing the whole point. You guys use Quickbook on the net, and you claim you know of very few small businesses that have their data on the cloud. Have you done some empirical study of the number of project management programs that have sprung up lately, and how many hundreds of millions of users are using them?

What we are going to do is use a Citrix or RDT equivalent for the work from home crowd, for the mobile user we'll be syncing the SQLs and developing apps for mobile devises. Companies that have mobile workers need inexpensive mobile connections, semantics not withstanding.

 

[Thales750]

Looking at my previous post, I guess I had a bee in MY bonnet too! Been a rough morning. Apologize for the tone! Cheers

It's OK, I was snippety in my answer before I read this. Have a good one.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

Phones and Mobile devices might be used to record external events - such as delivery confirmations - which then have to be fed back into the database. Providing and managing data to complete these processes is tricky.

As an example Amazon and DPD are to me seem to be the most advanced at real time processing to do stuff like this.

 

[Thales750]

Phones and Mobile devices might be used to record external events - such as delivery confirmations - which then have to be fed back into the database. Providing and managing data to complete these processes is tricky.

As an example Amazon and DPD are to me seem to be the most advanced at real time processing to do stuff like this.

That is where we are with our Field Project Management software. To generate revenue we will use some thing like this:
https://www.apps4rent.com/ to host the desktop portion.

The first mobile connections will be PHP with the SQL databases doing some kind of automatic sinc. Later, we may or may not add apps.

Eventually, if this grows we'll get enough developers together to rebuild it into some kind of web based product. I've invested 20 years into this program, it does things that most of the current SAS offerings cant do. But what the competition can do is thrive in a Mobile World