Paris (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

I agree Kraj.

Col

 

[jsanders]

All true points. However, assuming that middle eastern countries like Iraq are capable of functioning with governments other than dictatorships, insurgencies are quelled, civil wars are avoided, and the region stabilizes to a reasonable degree (that's quite a "To Do" list ain't it, Bushie?), then it will be hard to claim the majority of Iraqis are not far better off with Saddam gone. I'd imagine the vast majority of people who prefered life under Hussein are either a.) caught in the crossfire of the temporary (if drawn out) conflict between U.S. forces and insurgents or b.) people who benefited from Saddam's corruption.

You're absolutely correct.

Nothing like a couple of Brits, to get even the hardest anti-Bush Americans, rallied up in his defense.

 

[Kraj]

I agree Kraj.

Col

...I'll never wash my eyes again!

Nothing like a couple of Brits, to get even the hardest anti-Bush Americans, rallied up in his defense.

LOL

If I have given anyone the impression I've defended Bush in any way, shape, or form, my deepest apologies. I just think there's a vast wealth of things to criticise Bush about without using rhetoric, speculation, or pessimism, (**comment directed towards Bush critics in general....I'm not referring to anyone specifically**) so why not stick to the juicy stuff?

 

[ColinEssex]

...I'll never wash my eyes again!

you seem surprised Kraj

Col

 

[Kraj]

you seem surprised Kraj

Col

Just playin'.... it seems like it's been awhile since we agreed about anything, much less something related to Bush/Iraq.

 

[ColinEssex]

Just playin'.... it seems like it's been awhile since we agreed about anything, much less something related to Bush/Iraq.

I know your feelings towards Bush / Iraq and the fact that the majority of normal US people think the same - all you need to do is get rid of the warmongering prat.

There's a big thing on the ITN news last night about the Vice Prez being accused by some ex CIA chap about the Prez and Vice Prez giving the green light to torture people they capture? then Bush comes on and says its not true and the CIA bloke called Bush a blatant liar in the interview.

The CIA chap also said that the already low and hated image of the USA worldwide will now be rock bottom.

Whats that all about?

Col

 

[Rich]

I'd imagine the vast majority of people who prefered life under Hussein are either a.) caught in the crossfire of the temporary (if drawn out) conflict between U.S. forces and insurgents or b.) people who benefited from Saddam's corruption.

I'd say therein lies the problem, we're looking at the middle east through western eyes and can't therefore really be subjective.
If one looks back through history of the region it's be in turmoil for centuries, they have customs and ways that we simply don't understand.
However alien Saddam was to us, Iraqis at least knew where they were under his leadership.

 

[ColinEssex]

I'd say therein lies the problem, we're looking at the middle east through western eyes and can't therefore really be subjective.
If one looks back through history of the region it's be in turmoil for centuries, they have customs and ways that we simply don't understand.
However alien Saddam was to us, Iraqis at least knew where they were under his leadership.

The centuries of turmoil was usually of a religious or occupation of land reasons. These days its just oil - pure and simple - thats why the USA won't bother with any non oil producing dictatorships.

Col

 

[Rich]

The centuries of turmoil was usually of a religious or occupation of land reasons. These days its just oil - pure and simple - thats why the USA won't bother with any non oil producing dictatorships.

Col

I think there's some oil in Dorset, should we be worried?
I mean the US does seem to have a habit of turning on it's former allies

 

[ColinEssex]

I mean the US does seem to have a habit of turning on it's former allies

They call that "friendly fire" when they kill their allies

anyway, the USA already runs this country

Col

 

[Rich]

anyway, the USA already runs this country

Col

Well this we've suspected for a long time but now have the evidence to support this
The Yanks don't even have to supply evidence to our country to back up the claim any more
Do you think the favour would be returned?

 

[Kraj]

Whats that all about?

I haven't heard the specific story you mention, but it doesn't sound like anyone is saying anything everyone didn't already know anyway

Although I pretty much try to ignore the man's existence whenever possible for the sack of my sanity, I am vaguely curious as to what his strategy will be for regaining his lost support.

 

[L'apprentis]

Vive la France

This is just a thought, has anyone else felt that some of this is an in-direct result of their complacent attitude...

Hey, I am french,
What do you mean by Complacent attitude, never forget my dear friend that French people are very touchy...
The stuff hapening in France just now are not really a big surprise, the situation has been boiling up for years (cf: La Haine [le movie]) this is just a direct consequence of the after war when France was rebuilt with the help of quite a few Northen african People that the government was quite happy to lodge in futuristic buildings at the time called towers. 40 years after, 1st and 2nd generation want the money back, it' s also hapening in quite a lot of other country in Europe.

Interesting...I would have thought our European counterparts would have some kind of insight into the social roots of this event. Instead the discussion seems to be rather superficial

Superficial is good, sometimes...

Separate schools increase the divide, people should mix from a young age, ALL children should attend state schools and learn to live with each other, learning about each others life styles etc. They might come to realise that their religious leaders are only in it for power.

Yep...It's would be all nice and wonderfull and we could also have nice shooting stars coming out of our hears each time we say I love you....Somehow I don't think it's gonna happen

In this specific case, however, because of the nature of the clothing in question I could see it causing a disruption with the normal school environment at times and a teacher should have the right to ask the item be removed. If the Muslims want special rights so they can refuse to do so, then I agree that they should go to a Muslim school.

Well...That's the problem, there's no muslim school and people wouldn't take there items off.

Thanksgiving, Independence day, Sunday afternoon football, the list goes on.

And oh yeah, a tradition of getting Europe out of its terrible wars.

WWHHHHHHHAAAAATTTTTTTTTT!!
Am I reading the Scottish Sun????

Not to down play the role of any Allied citizens or nations, but as you have pointed out so often we have a lot of guns over here. 

If a super power like the former Soviet Union, or the current United States can’t occupy a couple of flee bites in the Middle East. How in the world do you suppose the Nazis could have maintained control over Britain or the US for any length of time? 

Wouldn’t have happened. 

We would have invented a gorilla warfare and terrorism battlefield to make the current stuff look like playground fun.

Hi...You right...

 

[cavscout]

majority of normal US people think the same
Col

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.

 

[ColinEssex]

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.

Normal? what do you think it means? the people who like a good old war killing 20,000+ civilians and a couple of thousand troops? and ruining a country for the sake of it so it'll always have civil war now?

Majority? = people who don't want the above

Col

 

[jsanders]

Quoted from Cav

Liberals keep using that word...I do not think it means what they think it means.



How do you define liberal? I think the word liberal is the most inaccurately used word in modern American society.

It’s used for everything from any disagreement with bush, to anyone questioning how the republicans think we are going to finance this huge Bush deficit.

Cav that label has gotten some of the worst bunch elected to the White House in my lifetime.

And by the way the majority of the people in the country voted for Al Gore. Only he was put in office by an antiquated system designed to be used by farmers in a communicationless country 230 years ago.

The Republicans have duped the country by forming the debate.

Think about it.

How often do you see bumper stickers about “Right to Life” (code for antiabortion to you foreigners)?

Millions of people voted for family values because the churches told them to vote for candidates that support right to life. So the Democrats in their stupidity embraced all of the others (the liberal issues).

Now none of them are looking out for the middle class, because the major corporations and institutional investors are in the background laughing their collective asses off. We’re arguing about whether or not we should be in Iraq; they laugh, we complain about storms knocking our cities down; they get richer hiring illegal immigrants to rebuild, we argue about gay marriage; they make laws so General Motors can get a tax break for moving 38,000 jobs to China.

Wake up, these idiotic diversions are a divide and conquer tactic. You’re a Marine; it should be obvious to you.

 

[jsanders]

By the way, I’m a moderate. But the pendulum has swung too far to the right. It’s time for a little swing back.

 

[Rich]

By the way, I’m a moderate. But the pendulum has swung too far to the right. It’s time for a little swing back.

At last! you're starting in the right direction, now you also need to introduce an element of social justice into your society and you'll start to become a modern society

 

[statsman]

I would ban religious brain washing but would be happy to have religious teachers explaining the basis of their religion to all pupils, but it would have to be an open minded discussion.

Brian

I would be interested in learning about ANY religion that could be described as OPEN MINDED.

 

[ColinEssex]

I would be interested in learning about ANY religion that could be described as OPEN MINDED.

Nice one I don't think "religion" and "open minded" can go together.
All religions are basically cults where people follow the teachings of a leader. It doesn't matter if the leader lives in Waco or is a smooth magician (if he existed) who can con people into thinking his tricks are miracles - like christianity - the basics are still the same.

They even hijacked the pagan festival in December and reckon its their leaders birthday

Col