Piano (2 Viewers)

[The_Doc_Man]

@jpl458 - the REAL strength of what you say - using the so-called "1,4,5" or "circle 6th" progressions to give everyone a "path" through a new composition - is a common element of Dixieland Jazz, where a particular piece will have a known melody, but the instruments of that band are not chord-oriented. Many such bands don't have a stringed or keyboard instrument, they are based on clarinet, trumpet, trombone, tuba or similar bass horn (sometimes sousaphone), saxophones of various sizes, drums - all monophonic instruments. Rarely they will include a banjo. A stage band might include guitar or piano, but that is NOT guaranteed. So they improvise some accompaniment and frequently improvise "around" a melody.

This pick-up group's video had a banjo. They are typical of modern Dixieland, but you can look up that style.

By the way, did you recognize the tune? I think it is variation of a theme around the traditional song "Bill Bailey Won't You Please Come Home."

This next video is a much different - and yet similar - example with a much bigger "footprint" in that it has Louie Armstrong and the Dukes of Dixieland. That "Dukes" group was the creation of Frank Assunto, a trombonist. They were active in the 1940s through the 1970s. In the "break out" near the end you can hear the intertwining melodic contrapuntal improvisation for one verse. That counterpoint improv is a defining characteristic of Dixieland Jazz. In that moment, you have the perfect definition of what society should be like... everyone doing their own thing individually but getting along together harmoniously.

 

[jpl458]

I was just practicing and this thought came to me. You can think of music in 2 ways, verticle and horizontal. Populaar music is verticle, in the sence that everything is based on the chord structure, whereas in clasical music the melody is usually predominate. (But not all the time). Most of the great jazz palyers were considered to be verticle with the exception of a few. Paul Gonzalves was a jazz sax player with Count Basie and was a horozontal player because he would diviate from the underlying chord structure. Just remebering things. Hope you don't mind.

 

[jpl458]

@jpl458 - the REAL strength of what you say - using the so-called "1,4,5" or "circle 6th" progressions to give everyone a "path" through a new composition - is a common element of Dixieland Jazz, where a particular piece will have a known melody, but the instruments of that band are not chord-oriented. Many such bands don't have a stringed or keyboard instrument, they are based on clarinet, trumpet, trombone, tuba or similar bass horn (sometimes sousaphone), saxophones of various sizes, drums - all monophonic instruments. Rarely they will include a banjo. A stage band might include guitar or piano, but that is NOT guaranteed. So they improvise some accompaniment and frequently improvise "around" a melody.

This pick-up group's video had a banjo. They are typical of modern Dixieland, but you can look up that style.

By the way, did you recognize the tune? I think it is variation of a theme around the traditional song "Bill Bailey Won't You Please Come Home."

This next video is a much different - and yet similar - example with a much bigger "footprint" in that it has Louie Armstrong and the Dukes of Dixieland. That "Dukes" group was the creation of Frank Assunto, a trombonist. They were active in the 1940s through the 1970s. In the "break out" near the end you can hear the intertwining melodic contrapuntal improvisation for one verse. That counterpoint improv is a defining characteristic of Dixieland Jazz. In that moment, you have the perfect definition of what society should be like... everyone doing their own thing individually but getting along together harmoniously.

Doc, it really the same for all music, from Dixie to Pop to Miles Davis. Take a progression like 1, 3,4,5, there are probably a hundred pop songs based on that progression or as the bridge. If you change the order of the chords you could find a thousand songs in that mix.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Hope you don't mind.

Why should I mind? Music is a language that can span generations, races, nations, and multi-national cultures.

I remember once in either grade school or junior high that I got into a discussion with an English teacher when the topic was to write a theme on modern music. She talked about the variety of music on the radio (we are talking 1950s-1960s here) and I said that you could play accompaniment for most of it if you knew half-a-dozen chords and the patterns such as 1-4-5, circle-6 (major and minor variants), and a couple of others. I then suggested that there were actually very few modern composers who broke out of that mold, one of them being Elmer Bernstein. (Think West Side Story.) Two other musicians in the same class backed my comments and named a couple of other contemporary "pop" composers.

Don't worry about jumping in. We may have different politics but music transcends many differences.

 

[murphybridget]

In a conventional band you usually have drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar and lead guitar. The rhythm guitar is the chord instrument and the lead is more the melody - think Hank Marvin, The Shadows or the Ventures. I'm not much cop at chords so play lead. Incidentally, the bass guitar doesn't follow the drum beat, it can be a melody on its own, it compliments the drums otherwise it is boring. Listen to the bass line on The Beatles song 'Something' , a very complex bass line.
Col

Thank you for highlighting some key roles within a conventional band setup. I am actually trying to find what the rhythm and lead guitar, and you said they play the rhythm and melody part of the performance.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Thank you for highlighting some key roles within a conventional band setup. I am actually trying to find what the rhythm and lead guitar, and you said they play the rhythm and melody part of the performance.

If you have musical questions, ask! I don't have a degree in music but I have played one instrument or another since 1954 and have performed in a band or as a solo artist (mostly during college days) well over 100 times, probably pushing 200. When I chose a non-musical career, I didn't stop playing. I just stopped playing in public.

 

[jpl458]

Thank you for highlighting some key roles within a conventional band setup. I am actually trying to find what the rhythm and lead guitar, and you said they play the rhythm and melody part of the performance.

The orchestration of a band can vary. The last band I played in was Guitar, Base, Drums, Tenor Sax, keyboard and trumpet. Traditionally Guitar, bass and drumns are considered the rythem section of the band. (It should be noted that when tunes are improvised it's important to listen to the bass player, not the drummer.) Both the piano and the guitar are Chorded instruments (which can cause conflict), unless the guitar player knows how to play with the piano player, not against. Additionally the guitar can be played like a horn in that it can play lines like a horn, and well as chords The band I was in played very large weddings and some other large events (The UAW Convention enery year), so the structuer of who did what when changed with each set. At a wedding, during the first set, the folks are still eating, so the music you play is soft, And you have the garter toss, The Hokey Pokey, etc. The second set is when the dancing starts, usually older folks, and the same thru most of the third set, but thnigs pickup tempo wise. The last couple of tunes in the 3rd set are rock, which sets the stage for the fourth set which is generally all rock, because the old folks have left. When we playted the first set I played a lot with a classical guitar that was miked. After that I swiched to Gibson ES 175D carved top electric. During the last set I would sometimes use a Fender Telecaster. So, in that band we had to be able to play in a variety of bags, old standards, Bossa Novas, covering Rock tunes. Everybody sang excpet the drummer and the keyboard guy.

And the drinks were free for the band.

I could write a small book about the things that went on onstage and off with that band.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Everybody sang excpet the drummer and the keyboard guy.

Everybody sang in the little 5-member band that was the group I was in most often. Then they asked me to stop singing and concentrate on my keyboards. Never told me why.

Seriously, the largest group I ever played in had drums, bass, rhythm guitar, lead&rhythm guitar, separate vocalist (and alternate rhythm device, usually tamborine), trumpet, sax (usually alto sax), trombone, and keyboard (me). Nine members.

 

[jpl458]

Sombody once told that if want to learn to hate someone, be in a band with them. In the band I descibed I would write charts for the horns and let everybody else figure it out from the blocks I supplied. The bass player asked me to write a chart for 25 or 6 to 4, (A Chicago Tune) which I did, but it was not nearly as good as the original. Then at every weekly rehersal he would requst a chart for another Chicago chart. After doing that 3 or 4 times, I stopped, because I told the bass player that there was already a band called Chicago, and we weren't it. That was about the time that when we got a request for Proud Mary, I put my guitar down an got a drink. I hated that tune. I realized later the the bass player wanted to be Peter Cetera. But, he wasn't. In the beginning it was a gas, great fun, but then people wanted us to be what we were not, and it turned into a drag.

 

[murphybridget]

If you have musical questions, ask! I don't have a degree in music but I have played one instrument or another since 1954 and have performed in a band or as a solo artist (mostly during college days) well over 100 times, probably pushing 200. When I chose a non-musical career, I didn't stop playing. I just stopped playing in public.

You must have been a crowd favorite back in the day.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Some of my work was playing organ for church weddings. In those cases, I wasn't the center of attention and didn't WANT to be such.

 

[murphybridget]

Some of my work was playing organ for church weddings. In those cases, I wasn't the center of attention and didn't WANT to be such.

You're either doing a very good or a very bad job if that happens as such.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Only happened once. I was playing a wedding at a church that had a real pipe organ and the high Eb was wheezy. The piece I was playing had that note and it went "HONK wheeze" - but fortunately the couple knew that the organ needed repair, and I was able to avoid that note for the rest of the services. We had a good laugh over it later.

 

[murphybridget]

Only happened once. I was playing a wedding at a church that had a real pipe organ and the high Eb was wheezy. The piece I was playing had that note and it went "HONK wheeze" - but fortunately the couple knew that the organ needed repair, and I was able to avoid that note for the rest of the services. We had a good laugh over it later.

Lucky for you the couple was very understanding.

 

[murphybridget]

But, when you see an arpeggio in classical music it is a broken chord where the notes are played either ascending or desceding. I mentioned that my wife was a great sight reader, but she coudent play anything unless the sheet music was in front of her. Classical music teaches you theory and technique. Playing in a good band is way more fun, and has a feeling of freedom about it. Someone in the band can call a tune the not everyone knows, but the caller can give a description buy calling the chords: "it's 1,6,2,5 with 1,4,5,1 bridge in B flat." Then you have the blocks and you can improvise something close to the melody when its your turn. But if you are starting out, scales are the things to practice. They tell you where everything is and are great for developing technique. The chords are made of notes in the scale. Example, in the key C the scale is cdefgabc. The C chord is c, e, and g. notes 1 3 and 5 of the scale. If you flat the the 3rd note, the cord become minor. Hope you don't mid me rambling on. Hope this make sense.

I think all she needs is a little memory exercise.