The Qur'an

[Mike Krailo]

I would only say that as long as you realise that you are basing your reasoning on your feeling that the universe needs a creator.

It's much more than that. I'm not one of those blind faith people anymore, although that might have been the case at first. I feel more like God has revealed himself to me progressively over time. It didn't happen overnight. This is an important point for realizing why God's plan is taking a long time to play out. He wants us all to come to him and he is very patient about it.

One of the crazy things that makes it difficult for some to see the light so to speak is that we are all inside a body with only five senses. Imagine if the limitations of your bodies senses were taken away and you were to discover that your actual soul had many more senses than just five? Do you think you would be able to see or experience reality differently than you do now? Unfortunately we all cannot easily just jump out of our bodies at will to see the light. It's quite scary to leave your body and the impulse to jump back in is very strong. There are those that claim they can do this for long periods of time. I know most scientologists have known this for a very long time and are constantly trying to achieve just that. That's the attraction to that cult. They get you to pop out of your body briefly and then completely depend on the cult to keep coming back for more of those experiences and meanwhile drain your bank account of all assets for their own purposes. It becomes an addicting quest to get out of your body without death. Don't fall for it though, they don't have your best interests in mind. I cannot prove it to you directly, I can only suggest that you look deeper into such an expanded consciousness outside our very limited physical bodies.

Assuming you eventually discover this truth directly or through experiences of others, it's a lot easier to get to the next level of understanding after having a glimpse at expanded consciousness. The faith part can be more blind in the beginning, but allows a vital connection to God to occur and the longer you keep the connection, the stronger your faith gets. There is a reality out there that is right in front of your nose, but you cannot see it with your eyes yet. You can see it with your heart only. After death, you see it with eyes so powerful they can see for miles and clearly see everything as it truly is. Hint, it's not what you see now only, but it's really an expanded version.

God's message is not to get wrapped up in all the minutia of biblical text, he want's us to know that the most important thing in this life is to love one another as your self. God especially is interested in those who are having a rough time, been beaten down, have endured great loss, and are clearly being looked down upon by others, and those that know they have sinned against him. Those people need his love way more than those of us that are comfortable in our lives and living like kings/queens in our own little world and not caring for others in favor of themselves.

So what does God do to love us, even though we have sinned against him or rejected him? He conquers death itself. He pays for all of our sins and iniquity by sacrificing his most loved and only begotten Son, Jesus. The debt was paid 2000 years ago on a cross. All sins are covered except for one. There is no forgiveness for rejecting his Son. None. So when you pass into a more permanent place in eternity it will be far, far away from the God of light and you will be on your own in darkness. Any light that was in you, will be taken away. But not before getting your life review from the one appointed ultimate judge over all of us. If you go it alone (without Christ), you know exactly what will happen next, don't you? Why would anyone reject such a loving gift of the ages? There is only one explanation, and its Pride. Plain and simple pride in one's self. That's the very thing that befell Satan and 1/3 of the angels in heaven. Pride is a killer of souls.

 

[Isaac]

Mike Krailo, try reading from the Bible, in particular the words of the Muslim Jesus.

And this is eternal life, that they may know you (meaning the Father), the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
John 17:3

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allaah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."
Qur'an 19:36

28 One of the scribes came near and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, he asked him, ‘Which commandment is the first of all?’
29 Jesus answered, ‘The first is, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one;
30 you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.”
Mark 12:28-30

Jesus said to him, ‘Away with you, Satan! for it is written, “Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.”’
Matthew 4:10

The above explicit verses are typical verses that Christians IGNORE. I wonder why!

Sounds like you cut and pasted from a Jehovah's Witness website, which tends to mention the same verses.

The answer to you is Yeah, Sure, there are a few verses where Jesus seems to imply that God is "his" God. So what about the other 100 verses that imply he IS God? Well, that's why we have the concept of a Trinity.

 

[Isaac]

My brother just had a miraculous being-saved moment from icy roads the other day - I mean it takes MORE faith to believe in coincidences than it does God. I am a person of relatively little faith, but I can clearly see God working in my life constantly, to the degree that I willingly and obediently partner with Him to let Him.

 

[aziz rasul]

On the basis of proving that Jesus believed in One God alone, in His Oneness, as did ALL the Prophets, the verses ARE IN CONTEXT. If your narrative is to twist it to something blasphemous, then that's up to you.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: TRUTH stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allaah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allaah heareth and knoweth all things.
Qur'an 2:256

In post #61, you were purposefully disingenuous and didn't give proper overall biblical context in order to deliberately deceive, as you seem to know the bible.

At the time of any of the Prophets, the Prophets were all at ONE with God just like Jesus as they were the emmisaries of God and carried out and fulfilled His commands.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU.
John 14:20

20 “I ask not only on behalf of these but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word,
21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me AND I AM IN YOU, MAY THEY ALSO BE IN US, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22 THE GLORY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME I HAVE GIVEN THEM, SO THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE ONE,
23 I IN THEM AND YOU IN ME, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
John 17:20-23

The message of Islam was taught by ALL the previous Prophets and Messengers, such as those mentioned in previous Scriptures (i.e. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus). However, it was finalised by God at the time of Muhammad the final messenger. Islam means “SUBMISSION to the will of God alone”; in other words, whatever God tells us to do, we OBEY Him and do it to the best of our ability. All who SUBMIT their will to God are Muslims and hence all the Prophets were MUSLIMS.

Here are some examples of SUBMISSION.

9 “Pray then in this way: OUR Father in heaven, hallowed be YOUR name.
10 YOUR kingdom come. YOUR WILL be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give US this day OUR daily bread.
12 And forgive us OUR debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not bring US to the time of trial, but rescue US from the evil one.
Matthew 6:9-13

And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me, yet not what I want but what YOU want.”
Matthew 26:39

“Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me, yet not my will but YOURS be done.”
Luke 22:42

For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME.
John 6:38

Jesus also followed in the footsteps of the previous Muslim Prophets e.g. Moses and was a servant of God and submitted to God and thus a Muslim.

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come to FULFIL.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, YOU WILL NEVER ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Matthew 5:17-20

That sounds like Jesus is a Muslim to me. I didn't add anything or take anything away. There are other translations of course but they all translate to the same Jesus is clearly a Muslim.
Islam disallows eating pork, drinking alcohol, boys are circumcised, etc. MUSLIM.
Oh and BTW, there are many sons of God in the bible as you well know. More deception. So what's your point. Jesus never claimed to be the 'begotten' son of God. In fact the word 'begotten' doesn't even appear in any of the 4 gospels in the Greek text. As there were a total of 79 gospels and the word 'begotten' doesn't appear in the 4 gospels, it stands to reason the word could not have appearred in the other 75 gospels and this is supposed to be one of the main pillars of the FALSE Christian or should I say Paulian belief.

Previous Prophets prayed like Muslims pray today i.e. by prostrating to the ground, taught by Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Abraham – Genesis 17:3
Moses – Exodus 34:8
Jesus - Matthew 26:39

Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Qur’an 2:133

Even Paul said that the Father was the only God.

Yet for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
1 Corinthians 8:6

In the New Testament, Lord is the most frequently used title for Jesus Christ, indicating his authority, power, and control as all Prophets and Messengers had.

We are in agreement here so not sure what the problem is. Yes there is God the Father.

The problem is that the Paulians claim that Jesus is also God. Who are you kidding? All Christians know that.
Are you going to ignore all the verses where clearly Jesus is a Prophet? Qur’an 4:171-2, Qur’an 5:75, Qur’an 61:6, Mark 6:4, John 6:14, John 7:40, John 9:17, Matthew 21:10-11 and Matthew 15:24.

only begotten Son, Jesus.

Hmmm, funny that Jesus never claims this in the bible. He also says he is the son of Man.

Sounds like you cut and pasted from a Jehovah's Witness website, which tends to mention the same verses.

Wrong. Actually mostly the NRSV bible.

So what about the other 100 verses that imply he IS God? Well, that's why we have the concept of a Trinity.

ou would have a contradiction then and you haven't provided any verses anyway. There is NO TRINITY in the earliest versions of the bible and there is certainly no mention of it even in the old testament. No where does Jesus himself says there is a triunne God. This was invented in the 4th century.

The_Doc_Man, there was no knowledge at the molecular level. Your desperation at denying the truth is funny to watch.

Pat Hartman
6. Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.
7. Allaah has set a SEAL upon their HEARTS and upon their HEARING, and over their vision is a VEIL. And for them is a GREAT PUNISHMENT.
8. And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allaah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.
9. They [think to] deceive Allaah and those who believe, but they deceive not except THEMSELVES and perceive [it] not.
10. In their hearts is DISEASE, so Allaah has INCREASED their DISEASE; and for them is a PAINFUL PUNISHMENT because they [habitually] used to LIE.
11. And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
12. Unquestionably, it is they who are the CORRUPTERS, but they perceive [it] not.
13. And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is THEY who are the FOOLISH, but they know [it] not.
14. And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their EVIL ONES, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers."
15. [But] Allaah MOCKS THEM and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they WANDER BLINDLY.
16. Those are the ones who have purchased ERROR [in exchange] for guidance, so their transaction has brought no profit, nor were they guided.
17. Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allaah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.
18. DEAF, DUMB and BLIND- so they will not return [to the right path].
19. Or [it is] like a rainstorm from the sky within which is darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps in dread of death. But Allaah is encompassing of the disbelievers.
20. The lightning almost snatches away their sight. Every time it lights [the way] for them, they walk therein; but when darkness comes over them, they stand [still]. And if Allaah had willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Indeed, Allaah is over all things competent.
21. O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -
22. [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allaah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].
23. And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a Surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allaah, if you should be TRUTHFUL.
Qur'an 2:6-23

And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and [saying], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire.
Qur'an 8:50

And whoever has not believed in Allaah and His Messenger - then indeed, We have prepared for the disbelievers a Blaze.
Qur'an 48:13

 

[aziz rasul]

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion or utter anything concerning Allaah but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allaah, His Word that He sent to Mary, and a Spirit (Gabriel) from Him [that He sent]. So believe in Allaah and His messengers, and do not say “Three.” Desist, it is better for you! Allaah is one God. Far exalted is He above having offspring. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth. Allaah is sufficient a disposer of affairs.
172. The Messiah would never scorn to be a servant to Allaah, nor would the angels who are nearest to Allaah. As for those who scorn His service and are arrogantly proud, He shall gather them all to Himself to answer.
Qur'an 4.171-2

They have indeed disbelieved those who say: “Allaah is the Messiah son of Mary.” Say [O Muhammad!]: “Who then can do anything against Allaah if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, his mother, and everyone on earth?” Allaah’s is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. Allah is able to do all things.
Qur'an 5.17

Surely they disbelieve those who say: “Allaah is the Messiah son of Mary.” The Messiah himself said: “O Children of Israel! Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods with Allah, for him Allaah has forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. The evildoers shall have no helpers.”
Qur'an 5.72

The Messiah son of Mary was no other than a messenger before whom [similar] messengers passed away, and his mother was a saintly woman. They used to eat food [like other human beings]. See how We make the revelations clear to them, and see how they are deluded!
Qur'an 5.75

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
Ezekiel 18:20

 

[Isaac]

Jesus never claimed to be the 'begotten' son of God.

Of course he didn't, others testified... like the spirit.
I'll see you in heaven friend

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The_Doc_Man, lets get something absolutely clear here. You initially ignored post #60 because you recognised the truth

No, I ignored post #60 because I knew you were going to claim something miraculous there. But to me it is just another case of confirmation bias.

I am trying to not be personally abusive, Aziz, but you sound exactly like the kind of overly anxious zealot that makes me fear for my safety. You seem to be out to convert people to a religion that I find hateful in the extreme regarding the way it unevenly treats women (but then claims to be PROTECTING them - from what, I'm not sure.) Your religion cannot stand dissenters and doubters. Your religion has no acceptance of people who are of other religions and no acceptance of people who are homosexual. Since I have a gay daughter, a person I happen to love, I cannot accept the restrictions and condemnation that would be placed on her. Your religion would probably condemn me for apostasy or heresy or something similar. And I should adhere to a religion that hateful? I don't think so.

Do you want to know WHY I reject your exhortations? Because to me they speak of anger - an overweening anger that I would want people of your religious culture to enter the 20th century and, in time, make it all the way to the 21st century. The excesses of exclusionary dogma do no one any favors. It is time to abandon that way of thinking. And I have abandoned it.

 

[Mike Krailo]

On the basis of proving that Jesus believed in One God alone, in His Oneness, as did ALL the Prophets, the verses ARE IN CONTEXT. If your narrative is to twist it to something blasphemous, then that's up to you.

Jesus was born of the virgin Mary unlike any other prophet. It matters not what Jesus believes. It wholly matters what his disciples believed and ultimately what we who have not seen with out own eyes believe.

Matthew, in his Gospel (Matthew 1:22-23), directly connects Isaiah's prophecy to the birth of Jesus Christ. He writes, "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel' (which means 'God with us')."
Here, Matthew unequivocally states that Jesus' birth to the Virgin Mary was the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.
The birth of Jesus was a miraculous event, signifying His divine nature and His mission to be "God with us."

That is a very big distinction that God insists you acknowledge, because it is through his only begotten Son's shed blood that any of us have any way to reunite with God at all. Even demons believe and know God exists, that is not the ticket to salvation or a way back to a proper relationship with God. God demands perfection, which is no sin, which none of us are capable of on our own. If you think you are capable of measuring up to God's perfect standard, then you have possibly not examined yourself well enough. Accepting the gift that God gave up his Son for the purpose of saving sinners and all you need to do is accept that gift via belief is all that God requires. Of course, you don't go on sinning as if nothing happened, your life is changed and you begin to grow spiritually. Your love for others should grow exponentially. There is no way for you to begin to achieve this without accepting the gift. Do you harbor any hatred or ill will for those that do not believe in God? Or hatred towards anyone for that matter? We are called to be filled with God's spirit and with that comes a massive amount of love for all who are oppressed, all who don't know what they don't know, and yes, even your perceived enemies. I say perceived, because you have a choice to see others as beings to be loved, indifferent, or (disliked/hated). That doesn't mean you love what someone does or doesn't do, you love them unconditionally in spite of their lost way.

There are a lot of people who consider themselves to be good people and I think that may be true superficially, but when you go deeper into the inner thoughts, there is a lot of evil thoughts that swirl around. Unfortunately, some of these thoughts seem not to be sins at all, but to God they are most definitely sin.

Matthew 5:17-20

Ah, a small portion of the sermon on the mount. And after he rose from the dead and appeared to his followers, he said something much more important. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Do you know why? The crazy thing is even after seeing the risen Jesus, some still doubted.

The Great Commission​

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Before this all happened and before he was crucified. Jesus said something to his followers they did not quite understand yet.

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Now for the big question for you aziz:

Which person in history was born of a virgin and died on a cross to shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins?
Which person was the Son of God to those who witnessed his death and resurrection?

Here's what Thomas had to say about it as he did not see the risen Christ right away like the other disciples did. The man was not easy to convince without some extra proof. Notice he called him Lord and God after seeing and feeling the proof he requested for himself. Now why would he call him Lord and God if he wasn't just that?

Jesus Appears to Thomas

Now Thomas called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The Purpose of John’s Book

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[Galaxiom]

Jesus was born of the virgin Mary unlike any other prophet.

Rational conclusions cannot be reached though comparisons of mythology.

Which person in history was born of a virgin and died on a cross to shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins? Which person was the Son of God to those who witnessed his death and resurrection?

None of this is recorded in history.

There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus from the time when he was supposed to be a person of note, let alone accounts of what supposedly happened to an obscure couple in barn in Bethlehem decades earlier, much less making the connection between the events. The gospels were written much later and their authorship is unclear.

The fact that otherwise rational people can take such nonsense seriously is testimony to the effectiveness of indoctrination of children.

 

[conception_native_0123]

friend

friend?

 

[aziz rasul]

others testified... like the spirit.

This would be a contradiction as Jesus stated that he was a Prophet and that the Father was the only true God. Prophets don't contradict themselves. You also gave no biblical reference.

 

[aziz rasul]

But to me it is just another case of confirmation bias.

The explicit and accurate Qur'anic verses do indeed confirm biological facts.

I am trying to not be personally abusive

I think you are. I have no way threatened you on a personal level, so your comments are unwarranted.

unevenly treats women

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast [and deny themselves], for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allaah's praise,- for them has Allaah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Qur’an 33:35

Your religion cannot stand dissenters and doubters.

Well you have been doing just that and no one has stopped you, although you will be judged in the Hereafter. Since you don't believe in God, that shouldn't matter to you.

Your religion has no acceptance of people who are of other religions

Well Islam IS the ONLY TRUE religion followed by ALL the Prophets. Obviously, God is not going to say that we should follow a FALSE religion, is He? That would make no sense. For God to tell us to follow the TRUE path and we will be rewarded as such but if we follow the FALSE that's OK as well. That would be a contradiction.

and no acceptance of people who are homosexual

So why have western countries outlawed homosexuals\hetrosexuals from publicly committing sexual acts and punish them. In fact why do western countries outlaw any acts of indecency by hetrosexuals and homesexuals.

I am trying to not be personally abusive, The_Doc_Man, but if a family member has committed a crime in your country, then you should report it. You don't corruption to spread, do you?

Your religion would probably condemn me for apostasy or heresy or something similar.

Your false accusations towards me are a real concern. If you had your way, you would probably lock me up or deport me. And I should adhere to such hate and pent up anger? I don't think so.

It is time to abandon that way of thinking. And I have abandoned it.

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers."
Qur’an - Surah al-An’aam (Cattle) 6:27

Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds.
Except the Companions of the Right Hand.
In gardens they will ask one another
Concerning the guilty:
“What led you into Hell Fire?”
They will answer: We were not of those who prayed
“Nor were we of those who fed the poor;
“But we used to talk vanities with vain talkers;
“And we used to deny the Day of Judgment,
“Until there came to us (the Hour) that is certain.”
Then will no intercession of (any) intercessors profit them.
Qur’an - Surah al-Mudathir (The Cloaked One) 74:38-48

Those who denied Our signs and the meeting of the Hereafter - their deeds have become worthless. Are they recompensed except for what they used to do?
Qur'an 7:147

 

[Mike Krailo]

This would be a contradiction as Jesus stated that he was a Prophet and that the Father was the only true God. Prophets don't contradict themselves. You also gave no biblical reference.

By far, the most frequent name Jesus called himself was “Son of Man,” recorded over 100 times in the gospels. Other names were also mentioned below.

1. Son of Man
2. I Am
3. Life
4. Bridegroom
5. Gate
6. Good Shepherd
7. Light of the World
8. Lord/Teacher
9. Messiah/Christ
10. Vine

Do any of these names conjure up the image of a prophet to you? That's not to say he didn't also have the role as prophet and others seen him as a prophet, but in addition he had the role of high priest and more importantly king. Remember, they mocked him while he carried his own cross calling him the king of the Jews. Maybe not what the Jews originally had in mind, but he did what God's holy spirit told him to do without fail and fufilled God's mission. In doing God's will, God has forever glorified him and given him all authority. There is no prophet that has been given all authority by God. No other.

The angel Gabriel told Mary that Jesus “will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end” (Luke 1:32–33). This is great for believers, not so great for those that don't.

 

[aziz rasul]

Jesus was born of the virgin Mary unlike any other prophet. It matters not what Jesus believes. It wholly matters what his disciples believed and ultimately what we who have not seen with out own eyes believe.

Jesus (peace be upon him) was born of the virgin Mary (peace be upon her). Agreed.

Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: To the care of Zakariyah was she assigned . . .
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:37

And Mary the daughter of 'Imraan, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit (Ruh); and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Qur’an – Surah at-Tahrim (Banning) 66:12

The similitude of Jesus before Allaah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:59

Adam was created without a Father or Mother unlike any other prophet.

Here, Matthew

Exactly, whoever Matthew was. It's what Jesus says in the bible, that I am interested in, not what the gospel writers say.

The birth of Jesus was a miraculous event, signifying His divine nature and His mission to be "God with us."

There have been many miracles. We don't say when those Prophets who produced miracles by God's command as did Jesus did, were divine.

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Injil (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:3

109. One day will Allaah gather the messengers together, and ask: “What was the response ye received (from men to your teaching)?” They will say: “We have no knowledge: it is Thou Who knowest in full all that is hidden.”
110. Then will Allaah say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit (Gabriel), so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Injil and behold! Thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! Thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
111. “And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allaah as Muslims”.
Qur’an - Surah al-Ma’aida (The Table Spread) 5:109-11 See also 3:49, Acts 2:22;10:38

his only begotten Son

Jesus never claimed this, but he did say he was a Prophet, which you seem to be ignoring. I wonder why?

God demands perfection, which is no sin,

I disagree.

“Say: O ‘Ibadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Qur'an 39:53

Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Qur'an 25:68-70

If you avoid the major sins which you are forbidden, We will remove from you your lesser sins and admit you to a noble entrance [into Paradise].
Qur'an 4:31

Those who associate partners with God or reject God and die in that state e.g., Christians, Hindus, etc. will enter HELLFIRE for ETERNITY.

Ah, a small portion of the sermon on the mount.

But an important one, which you seem to ignore as it fits your blasphemous narrative.

Which person in history was born of a virgin and died on a cross to shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins?
Which person was the Son of God to those who witnessed his death and resurrection?

No one.

54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allaah too planned, and the best of planners is Allaah.
55. Behold! Allaah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
57. “As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allaah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allaah loveth not those who do wrong.”
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:54-7 See also 3:90.

157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allaah”; - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: -
158. Nay, Allaah raised him up unto Himself; and Allaah is Exalted in Power, Wise; -
Qur’an - Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:157-158 See also John 20:17 and Matthew 27:46

 

[aziz rasul]

Do any of these names conjure up the image of a prophet to you?

The following do.
Qur’an 4:171-2, Qur’an 5:75, Qur’an 61:6, Mark 6:4, John 6:14, John 7:40, John 9:17, Matthew 21:10-11 and Matthew 15:24.

Jesus (peace be upon him) the Maseeh.
Qur’an 3.45, John 1:41, John 4:25-26, John 10:24

 

[aziz rasul]

its practice authorized by the Qur'an.

You seem to have a lot of PENT UP HATE towards Islam but provide no Qur'anic evidence. Accusing the Qur'an of the allowance of ra** is a serious charge. I would have expected some references, otherwise it's just your opinion, which doesn't amount to much IMHO.

People of all faiths and none do bad things but you target Muslims only! Shame on you.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The explicit and accurate Qur'anic verses do indeed confirm biological facts.

But they do not confirm the existence of Allah. THAT is the direction of confirmation bias that I meant.

In fact why do western countries outlaw any acts of indecency by hetrosexuals and homesexuals.

We don't outlaw acts done in private between consenting adults. Many of the Middle Eastern nations outlaw just being a homosexual, whether practicing or not.

Well you have been doing just that and no one has stopped you, although you will be judged in the Hereafter. Since you don't believe in God, that shouldn't matter to you.

(A) No one has stopped me because in the USA, we have legal safeguards regarding freedom of speech, freedom of/from religion, and a few other freedoms. (B) We actually agree on something. Since I don't believe in a deity, the idea of a deity's judgment means nothing to me.

If you want to know what I actually believe, look in Ecclesiastes, starting in chapter 9, where it talks about the dead. The Old Testament describes death as a simple form of non-existence. No thought, no memory, no sensations, no awareness. I didn't exist 80 years ago and I won't exist 80 years from now. (More precise limits to be determined later.) Neither of those statements bothers me.

Your false accusations towards me are a real concern. If you had your way, you would probably lock me up or deport me.

I would neither lock you up nor deport you unless you had committed a crime worthy of such treatment. You asked me about family members but it applies to everyone. You would believe that if someone "has committed a crime in your country, then you should report it." I accuse you of following a religion that claims to be loving... but if you look more closely, that love only applies to other members of your religion. That is my only real accusation. Do you or don't you follow Islam? The rest of my comments are about Islam and its treatment of outsiders.

Well Islam IS the ONLY TRUE religion followed by ALL the Prophets.

True religion? Not if you believe that Muhammad was a drug user who wrote his beliefs after some crazy drug trips and not actually a holy person. And your statement is also not correct in historical context. The prophets who precede the time of Muhammad didn't follow Islam. They were either Christian or Jewish. Those who preceded the existence of the Qur'an cannot possibly have followed it. And finally, talk to followers of the Church of Latter Day Saints, who follow the time of the Qur'an. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who led them to their beliefs which differ from those of Islam. So not ALL of the prophets. And if you choose to disbelieve in the validity of Joseph Smith as a prophet, don't get bent out of shape if we disbelieve the validity of Muhammad. We have a saying, "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."

for men and women who fast [and deny themselves], for men and women who guard their chastity,

Men seem to deny themselves less than women, since Islam allows a man to have four wives but a woman cannot have four husbands. When an Islamic man DOESN'T deny himself and violates a woman physically, she needs four witnesses. But when an Islamic man wants to condemn a woman for adultery, he doesn't need four witnesses. Yep, even treatment.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

People of all faiths and none do bad things but you target Muslims only! Shame on you.

Perhaps because I have seen the Muslims of the group from Hamas as they committed unspeakable acts of hatred against innocent children, as they hide behind civilians, as they hide in hospitals and then claim war crimes when the Israelis come after them. And other Muslims support them. When people of supposedly good character support others in the commission of one war crime after another, am I supposed to turn away and not see the horrors they inflict in the name of Allah? If this is what Allah allows, then do you wonder why I condemn Islam?

I have no shame in realizing that there are elements of Islam that are so violent that there is no living with them. I also know Muslims who were and are peace-loving people. But I am continually amazed that people who claim to love peace don't step in and curtail Hamas and Hezbollah and any other hate-filled groups like them.

We have crazy groups here, too, but in the USA we TRY to at least keep them from going rogue on us.

 

[Isaac]

Rational conclusions cannot be reached though comparisons of mythology.


None of this is recorded in history.

There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus from the time when he was supposed to be a person of note, let alone accounts of what supposedly happened to an obscure couple in barn in Bethlehem decades earlier, much less making the connection between the events. The gospels were written much later and their authorship is unclear.

The fact that otherwise rational people can take such nonsense seriously is testimony to the effectiveness of indoctrination of children.

The contemporary accounts are collected and we call them the Bible.

the fact that people began to focus on certain historical writings and attach religious meaning to them takes nothing away from their veracity as historical writings. Jesus was raised from the dead and seen by many. If you become a Christian, you'll become sure, as Christ becomes evident in your life. Believe me, there's a reason all the Christians are telling you "it's real". Because it is. Believe them. If they were making it up Christianity would be a tiny cult of 10 people, 9 of whom would come out of the cult and be on Dateline NBC the next year.

 

[Isaac]

Jesus was born of the virgin Mary unlike any other prophet. It matters not what Jesus believes. It wholly matters what his disciples believed and ultimately what we who have not seen with out own eyes believe.


That is a very big distinction that God insists you acknowledge, because it is through his only begotten Son's shed blood that any of us have any way to reunite with God at all. Even demons believe and know God exists, that is not the ticket to salvation or a way back to a proper relationship with God. God demands perfection, which is no sin, which none of us are capable of on our own. If you think you are capable of measuring up to God's perfect standard, then you have possibly not examined yourself well enough. Accepting the gift that God gave up his Son for the purpose of saving sinners and all you need to do is accept that gift via belief is all that God requires. Of course, you don't go on sinning as if nothing happened, your life is changed and you begin to grow spiritually. Your love for others should grow exponentially. There is no way for you to begin to achieve this without accepting the gift. Do you harbor any hatred or ill will for those that do not believe in God? Or hatred towards anyone for that matter? We are called to be filled with God's spirit and with that comes a massive amount of love for all who are oppressed, all who don't know what they don't know, and yes, even your perceived enemies. I say perceived, because you have a choice to see others as beings to be loved, indifferent, or (disliked/hated). That doesn't mean you love what someone does or doesn't do, you love them unconditionally in spite of their lost way.

There are a lot of people who consider themselves to be good people and I think that may be true superficially, but when you go deeper into the inner thoughts, there is a lot of evil thoughts that swirl around. Unfortunately, some of these thoughts seem not to be sins at all, but to God they are most definitely sin.


Ah, a small portion of the sermon on the mount. And after he rose from the dead and appeared to his followers, he said something much more important. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Do you know why? The crazy thing is even after seeing the risen Jesus, some still doubted.

Before this all happened and before he was crucified. Jesus said something to his followers they did not quite understand yet.


Now for the big question for you aziz:

Which person in history was born of a virgin and died on a cross to shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins?
Which person was the Son of God to those who witnessed his death and resurrection?

Here's what Thomas had to say about it as he did not see the risen Christ right away like the other disciples did. The man was not easy to convince without some extra proof. Notice he called him Lord and God after seeing and feeling the proof he requested for himself. Now why would he call him Lord and God if he wasn't just that?

Testify!

Islam brings people in by fear or force. Christians become joyously filled with meaning, direction, love.
People convert FROM islam TO christianity by the hundreds of thousands every year. The opposite does not happen. There is a reason.