The Qur'an

[conception_native_0123]

Everything is a business galax. life is a business. you have to advertise religion somewhere. if not, then you are not trying to spread the good word

didn't I already say this? everything except Paul being false, that is.

 

[Isaac]

I'm the opposite of Doc. If someone really thought my life was to be saved and did nothing, I'd think him/her quite the unkind soul!
And honestly, I think Doc would too, he just can't bring himself to apply it to this context.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Isaac, thank you for the indirect vote of confidence. I would like to think that in the presence of a real threat I might come to someone's aid. I am no hero and at my age, I don't know what I could do regarding physical threats.

However, I remain adamant that if I don't believe in a threat that there is no reason to try to save me from that threat that nobody can see, hear, feel, or otherwise detect. (The "otherwise detect" of course includes medical diagnostic tests.)

 

[aziz rasul]

When David committed a sin (adultery)

That is blasphemous in Islam. No Prophet ever committed a sin. Mistakes, yes but NOT sin, which is a deliberate act of disobedience to God.

 

[aziz rasul]

Mike Krailo, The 25 Prophets given in the Qur'an including Jesus were not False Prophets, but chosen by God.​

Those who attribute divinity to a Prophet are the ones who are in manifest error.

6. For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such), Destination.
7. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth,
8. Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"
9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a Warner did come to us, but we rejected him and said, 'Allaah never sent down any (Message): ye are nothing but an egregious delusion!'"
10. They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!"
11. They will then confess their sins: but far will be (Forgiveness) from the Companions of the Blazing Fire!
12. As for those who fear their Lord unseen, for them is Forgiveness and a great Reward.
13. And whether ye hide your word or publish it, He certainly has (full) knowledge, of the secrets of (all) hearts.
14. Should He not know,- He that created? and He is the One that understands the finest mysteries (and) is well-acquainted (with them).
Qur’an - Surah al-Mulk (The Sovereignty) 671:6-14

6 articles of Faith in Islam.

1- The Oneness of God
God is One. He is the Supreme and Eternal, the Creator and Provider, the Merciful and Compassionate. God has no father or mother and no son or daughter; He has never fathered anyone nor was He fathered. God has no equal. He is the God of all humankind, not of a special tribe, race, or group of people. He is the God of people of all races and colours, and of believers and unbelievers alike. God is Mighty and Supreme, yet is very near to the pious and thoughtful believers. God asks us to know Him, to love Him, and to follow His law for our own benefit and salvation.

2- The Angels of God
Angels are pure and spiritually obedient creatures. God created them to fulfill His commands and worship Him tirelessly.

3- The Divine Revelations (Books)
Muslims believe in the revelations sent by Almighty God to His prophets and messengers including the Qur’an given to Muhammad, the Torah given to Moses, the Gospel given to Jesus, the Scrolls of Abraham and the Psalms given to David.

4- The Prophets of God
All of the messengers and prophets of God such as Noah, Moses, Solomon, Jesus and Muhammad were mortal human beings who were endowed with Divine Revelations and appointed by God to teach humankind how to submit to His will and obey His laws.

5- Resurrection after Death and the Day of Judgment
After the world ends, Muslims believe that all people will be brought back to life to face the Judgment of Almighty God. Muslims believe in an appointed Day of Judgment and in heaven and hell.

6- Preordainment (Qadar)
Muslims believe in God’s eternally pre-existent knowledge and that nothing in existence lies outside of His eternal control.

"The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in God, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. (They say,) ‘We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers’ — and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)’." (Qur’an 2:285)

 

[aziz rasul]

didn't I already say this? everything except Paul being false, that is.

Glad you picked up on the Paul bit. He said things that were the opposite to Jesus, hence the current so called Christians are mostly Paulians. It's the Muslims who are the true followers of Jesus (peace be upon him) and his fundamental teachings e.g.,

28 One of the scribes came near and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: the Lord OUR God, the Lord is ONE;
30 you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’
Mark 12:28-30

 

[aziz rasul]

However, I remain adamant that if I don't believe in a threat

There is a threat of damnation in hellfire for eternity for not accepting God, which you already know about.

Your attempt, when providing a video link, to show that a Qur'anic verse was wrong fell flat regarding an expanding universe, which explains your silence on the subject, especially when I corrected you on the true translation of the expanding heavens.

Your silence shows that you have seen the truth but arrogance and pride prevent you from acknowledging it. You are the definition of a disbeliver i.e., someone who KNOWS the TRUTH but turns away. This is in fact the definition of the Arabic word Kaafir i.e., someone who hides or covers the TRUTH.

99. [For such is the state of the disbelievers], until, when death comes to one of them, he says, "My Lord, send me back
100. That I might do righteousness in that which I left behind." No! It is only a word he is saying; and behind them is a barrier until the Day they are resurrected.
Qur'an 2:99-100

That Day, those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish they could be covered by the earth. And they will not conceal from Allaah a [single] statement.
Qur'an 4:42

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples."
Qur'an 6:25

Whoever accepts guidance does so for his own good; whoever strays does so at his own peril. No soul will bear another’s burden, nor do We punish until We have sent a messenger.
Qur'an 17:15

You [Prophet] cannot guide everyone you love to the truth; it is God who guides whoever He will: He knows best those who will follow guidance.
Qur'an 28:56

“So those who believe in Allaah and hold fast to Him – He will admit them to mercy from Himself and bounty and guide them to Himself on a straight path.”
Qur’an 4:175

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Angels are pure and spiritually obedient creatures. God created them to fulfill His commands and worship Him tirelessly.

Proof positive that your Allah or God or whatever you want to call Him is a narcissist. VERY imperfect.

your silence shows that you have seen the truth but arrogance and pride prevent you from acknowledging it.

My silence shows that I understand the futility of speaking to someone who has been so totally brainwashed as to be unable to even briefly consider that someone else's viewpoint MIGHT just be right. Why should I argue with such arrogance as yours?

And this is a further point to consider. Since there IS no proof of the existence of God, we are EQUALLY correct in calling each other arrogant.

Which reminds me of that scene from the movie Patton in which Gen. Patton calls the Russian general a son of a bitch. To which the Russian replies that Gen. Patton is ALSO a son of a bitch. So Patton says, "Let's drink as one son of a bitch to another." Pick your favorite beverage, aziz, as I salute you, one arrogant son of a bitch to another.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I understand the futility of speaking to someone who has been so totally brainwashed as to be unable to even briefly consider that someone else's viewpoint

And thereby lies a tale. You could be speaking about a Democrat or a Republican... BOTH!!! They don't see the others point of view. They don't want to see the others point of view, it doesn't fit with their narrative. They're both as bad as one another! I could say a load more but I would be wasting my time...

 

[aziz rasul]

Proof positive that your Allah or God or whatever you want to call Him is a narcissist. VERY imperfect.

“And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allaah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His Names. They will be requited for what they used to do”.
Qur'an 7:180

... someone else's viewpoint MIGHT just be right.

But that's the point, you don't engage in the points that I correct, so where is the engagement? Even in your last post, you still haven't discussed the issue of the expanding heavens. This proves my point that you are a denier, insincere and arrogant and too frightened to discuss in any meaningful way. You will have no where to hide in the Hereafter.

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers."
Qur’an - Surah al-An’aam (Cattle) 6:27

“And We send down of the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe and it increases the TRANSGRESSORS in nothing but LOSS.”
Qur’an al-Isra’ 17:82

Since there IS no proof of the existence of God

There is proof of God's existence, but you deny the signs and I am not brainwashed. I study the Qur'an with care and attention as the Qur'an tells me so. It's you who do not reflect.

(This is) a Scripture that We have revealed unto thee, full of blessing, that they may ponder its revelations, and that men of understanding may reflect.
Qur'an 38:29

Will they then not meditate on the Qur'an, or are there locks on the hearts?
Qur'an 47:24

How many signs in the heavens and the earth do they pass by with indifference!
Qur'an 12:105

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?
Qur'an 41:53

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allaah , they would have found within it much contradiction.
Qur'an 4:82

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I study the Qur'an with care and attention as the Qur'an tells me so.

In the final analysis, you believe the Quran tells you of God / Allah because the Quran says it does. And you do not question because the Quran tells you to not do so.

 

[Mike Krailo]

Here's some food for thought and this is just the tip of the ice burg.

 

[aziz rasul]

In the final analysis, you believe the Quran tells you of God / Allah because the Quran says it does. And you do not question because the Quran tells you to not do so.

Completely incorrect. I have tackled issues regarding science. This is hardly someone who is blindly accepting things.

In your case, you simply disregard the verses in the Qur'an without reading them with any care and attention. It's is simply BLIND rejection just for the sake of it.

I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.
Qur'an 7:146

 

[aziz rasul]

Here's some food for thought

A long video to watch. Can you summarize a couple of points so we can discuss. And while you are it, can you tell us if there are any contradictions of any kind in the Bible? Also, did Jesus (peace be upon him) preach the 4 gospels?

 

[Galaxiom]

Completely incorrect. I have tackled issues regarding science.

Your every thought is coloured by your obsession with the Qur'an. You ignore what you can't make fit.

 

[aziz rasul]

Your every thought is coloured by your obsession with the Qur'an. You ignore what you can't make fit.

It's nothing to do with obsession, but reading verses about stuff that were unknown at the time that they were revealed. Everything fits.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

What your signature describes as science is, to me, merely evidence of an incomplete understanding of something that had been know because of animal husbandry. Long before the Quran was written, horse and cattle breeding were well known. Your drops and clinging clots would have been known and expected the first time a horse or cow had a miscarriage. So "unknown at that time" is NOT a true statement.

And your signature talks about how the heavens and the earth were joined together before being cleaved asunder. Sorry again to have to disagree with you, but not really true.

 

[aziz rasul]

...merely evidence of an incomplete understanding...

Qur'an 23:13-14 mentions the three microscopic biological points i.e.,

1. a drop (of semen)
2. firmly fixed
3. clinging clot

Can you provide some evidence when and by whom these three microscopic points were known prior to the Qur'an.

How would animal husbandry provide such microscopic evidence?

Biologically what happens is that the double shell of the fertilized egg becomes hardened and prevents the single trapped spermatozoon from escaping the egg and other spermatozoon's thus can't enter the egg. That is why the Qur'an is referring to 'firmly fixed' (qararin makin).

Similarly, the fact that only a very small portion of the semen is required and that the clot has to attach (to the uterus).

Here are the very first 2 verses that were revealed to the Prophet.

1. Recite in the name of your Lord who created -
2. Created man from a clinging substance.
Qur'an 96:1-2

A successful pregnancy is when the implantation takes place, otherwise no pregnancy.

Also, it's interesting that the biological sequence is in the correct order. Again if you can provide some reference(s) that explains all this so that I can change my signature.

As far as the creation of the universe is concerned i.e. a single particle bursting open (which ultimately produced the Earth (and other planets) and the heavens) and the resulting universe expanding, is something that was discovered in the past 100 years or so. In fact, in the beginning of the last universe, even people like Einstein believed in a static universe before people like Alexander Friedmann, Edwin Hubble, etc. said otherwise.

It seems to me you have dismissed both scientific points in my signature without giving any credible evidence or references that can stand up, but just generalities. If you were eventually going to tackle science in the Qur'an, you need to do a lot better as you seem to have an incomplete understanding. I think you're simply denying the Qur'anic verses because you can't bring yourself to accepting them and any old excuse will do.

So whoever Allaah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allaah place defilement upon those who do not believe.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:125

I'm not suggesting that there aren't things that were known before the Qur'an was revealed which the Qur'an mentions, I'm simply pointing out that there are things that were not known as well that ARE included and hence I am mostly concentrating on that, to prove a point.

Also all the science stuff in the Qur'an is correct. There was a lot of incorrect science before the time of the Qur'an as well, why didn't that get included in the Qur'an?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Your signature line about how the heavens and the earth were joined together and then cleaved asunder is CATEGORICALLY incorrect. There was no "cleaving" involved. The Earth was formed by gravity-driven accretion, a type of condensation on a planetary scale. This accretion is in fact the exact opposite of a cleaving action. The "cleaving" statement is wrong.

The only folks who would dispute that statement at a scientific level are religious apologists or zealots who will lie to advance their religion. Since I hold the class of apologists in low esteem, I will presume that you must be in the other class, a zealot who is misguided because of honestly held (but totally incorrect) beliefs.

 

[conception_native_0123]

I think this whole damn discussion is off-the-wall stupid, honestly.