The Qur'an

[aziz rasul]

In the final analysis, you believe the Quran tells you of God / Allah because the Quran says it does. And you do not question because the Quran tells you to not do so.

Completely incorrect. I have tackled issues regarding science. This is hardly someone who is blindly accepting things.

In your case, you simply disregard the verses in the Qur'an without reading them with any care and attention. It's is simply BLIND rejection just for the sake of it.

I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.
Qur'an 7:146

 

[aziz rasul]

Here's some food for thought

A long video to watch. Can you summarize a couple of points so we can discuss. And while you are it, can you tell us if there are any contradictions of any kind in the Bible? Also, did Jesus (peace be upon him) preach the 4 gospels?

 

[Galaxiom]

Completely incorrect. I have tackled issues regarding science.

Your every thought is coloured by your obsession with the Qur'an. You ignore what you can't make fit.

 

[aziz rasul]

Your every thought is coloured by your obsession with the Qur'an. You ignore what you can't make fit.

It's nothing to do with obsession, but reading verses about stuff that were unknown at the time that they were revealed. Everything fits.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

What your signature describes as science is, to me, merely evidence of an incomplete understanding of something that had been know because of animal husbandry. Long before the Quran was written, horse and cattle breeding were well known. Your drops and clinging clots would have been known and expected the first time a horse or cow had a miscarriage. So "unknown at that time" is NOT a true statement.

And your signature talks about how the heavens and the earth were joined together before being cleaved asunder. Sorry again to have to disagree with you, but not really true.

 

[aziz rasul]

...merely evidence of an incomplete understanding...

Qur'an 23:13-14 mentions the three microscopic biological points i.e.,

1. a drop (of semen)
2. firmly fixed
3. clinging clot

Can you provide some evidence when and by whom these three microscopic points were known prior to the Qur'an.

How would animal husbandry provide such microscopic evidence?

Biologically what happens is that the double shell of the fertilized egg becomes hardened and prevents the single trapped spermatozoon from escaping the egg and other spermatozoon's thus can't enter the egg. That is why the Qur'an is referring to 'firmly fixed' (qararin makin).

Similarly, the fact that only a very small portion of the semen is required and that the clot has to attach (to the uterus).

Here are the very first 2 verses that were revealed to the Prophet.

1. Recite in the name of your Lord who created -
2. Created man from a clinging substance.
Qur'an 96:1-2

A successful pregnancy is when the implantation takes place, otherwise no pregnancy.

Also, it's interesting that the biological sequence is in the correct order. Again if you can provide some reference(s) that explains all this so that I can change my signature.

As far as the creation of the universe is concerned i.e. a single particle bursting open (which ultimately produced the Earth (and other planets) and the heavens) and the resulting universe expanding, is something that was discovered in the past 100 years or so. In fact, in the beginning of the last universe, even people like Einstein believed in a static universe before people like Alexander Friedmann, Edwin Hubble, etc. said otherwise.

It seems to me you have dismissed both scientific points in my signature without giving any credible evidence or references that can stand up, but just generalities. If you were eventually going to tackle science in the Qur'an, you need to do a lot better as you seem to have an incomplete understanding. I think you're simply denying the Qur'anic verses because you can't bring yourself to accepting them and any old excuse will do.

So whoever Allaah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allaah place defilement upon those who do not believe.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:125

I'm not suggesting that there aren't things that were known before the Qur'an was revealed which the Qur'an mentions, I'm simply pointing out that there are things that were not known as well that ARE included and hence I am mostly concentrating on that, to prove a point.

Also all the science stuff in the Qur'an is correct. There was a lot of incorrect science before the time of the Qur'an as well, why didn't that get included in the Qur'an?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Your signature line about how the heavens and the earth were joined together and then cleaved asunder is CATEGORICALLY incorrect. There was no "cleaving" involved. The Earth was formed by gravity-driven accretion, a type of condensation on a planetary scale. This accretion is in fact the exact opposite of a cleaving action. The "cleaving" statement is wrong.

The only folks who would dispute that statement at a scientific level are religious apologists or zealots who will lie to advance their religion. Since I hold the class of apologists in low esteem, I will presume that you must be in the other class, a zealot who is misguided because of honestly held (but totally incorrect) beliefs.

 

[conception_native_0123]

I think this whole damn discussion is off-the-wall stupid, honestly.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Actually, Adam, I don't disagree. But there is that part of us that is in our evolutionary heritage to sometimes poke the bear, to find a way to persuade him that he isn't quite the force of nature he might have thought he was.

 

[aziz rasul]

Your signature...

It is CATEGORICALLY correct and YOU KNOW it. A singularity DID blow up 13.8 billion years ago which ultimately produced the universe we have today which includes the Earth and the Heavens surrounding it.

By calling me a zealot, you are simply trying to convince your inner self that you are right in your convictions but there is a lingering doubt which as a result of pride and arrogancy prevents you from accepting the TRUTH. There will be NO hiding place on the Day of Judgement.

Since I hold those who show proudness in low esteem, I will presume that you must be arrogant who is misguided because of honestly held (but totally incorrect) beliefs.

6. Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
7. Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
161. Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allaah and the angels and men all;
162. Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be given respite.
Qur'an 2:6-7, 161-2

So no answer to the microscopic biology then?

 

[aziz rasul]

I think

Do you indeed?

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth…
Qur'an al-Fussilat 41:53

Say, “I only advise you of one thing – that you stand for Allaah, in pairs and individually, and then give thought.”
Qur'an 36:46

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding; Those who remember Allaah while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], “Our Lord, You did not create this without purpose …”
Qur'an 3:190-191

There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.
Qur'an Yusuf 12:111

Say, “Is the blind equivalent to the seeing? Then will you not give a thought?”
Qur'an 6:50

Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allaah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason.
Qur'an 8:22

…They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.
Qur'an 7:179

 

[aziz rasul]

quite the force of nature

There will be quite a lot of force of nature going on in HELLFIRE
It won't be pleasant by any stretch of the imagination and it will last for eternity for the disbelievers.
Muslims who end up in HELLFIRE for major sins, will eventually leave and enter PARADISE for eternity, insha-allaah.

 

[Isaac]

I'm so thankful for the peace and joy and love that has filled my life since I surrendered to God. Never alone, always guided by the most powerful and smartest force in the universe. With total peace when facing death and that's just for starters

 

[The_Doc_Man]

A singularity DID blow up 13.8 billion years ago which ultimately produced the universe we have today

Actually, according to recent findings from the James Webb Space Telescope, that is in doubt.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Actually, according to recent findings from the James Webb Space Telescope, that is in doubt.

can you point to an article on that? I remember reading about it but I forget what the alternate theory was.

 

[conception_native_0123]

There will be quite a lot of force of nature going on in HELLFIRE

why do you always accompany the capitalized word HELLFIRE with a damn smiley face!? Hell isn't funny you goo f b a ll.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Adam, I don't know that there is an alternate theory yet. The discoveries are so new that I don't believe any new formal theories have been offered. Let's just say that it is either an exciting time or a frustrating time to be an astronomer or cosmologist right now. And it is purely terrible for all of the textbook sellers because now their textbooks are all out of date.

If you go on Firefox or Edge or whatever else you use, perhaps browse to YouTube, and search for "recent JWST discoveries" you will get some click-bait but also you can find some very thought-provoking articles. The current articles basically say that JWST is finding things that exist at a time when they shouldn't exist because they are older than the so-called "dark ages" (of the Big Bang). The "dark ages" in this context are a time when nothing should have coalesced from the gas clouds yet because they were still too hot. Some cosmologists are now saying that the universe is infinite in age, which would mean "no creation event." Others are pushing for a "localized" Big Bang rather than a generalized event. But all of the cosmology theoreticians are scrambling right now.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Some cosmologists are now saying that the universe is infinite in age

that would be truly spectacle. by the way, the James Webb scope is finding interesting things right in our own solar system too!

Webb telescope makes unexpected find in outskirts of our solar system

These ice worlds aren't dead.

mashable.com

found that on my phone tonight. but maybe we should forget about the cosmos and get back to the pointless arguments with aziz. isn't that what this thread is all about?

 

[SachAccess]

Dear @aziz rasul , I might be completely wrong here.
My impression of your posts is, you might not want too, but you are sounding aggressive.
If your intention itself is going to aggressive mode then I can not help it however I would gently request you to be considerate towards forum members.

Am sure, you might have already explained the exact motive or outcome of the original post.
May I request you to enlighten me once again. For example, if I am facing any issue about a SQL query, motive of post would be to get the help to solve the issue. Or if I learnt something new, and post it here, my motive would be, to share the knowledge with the forum.
What is the outcome or motive of the your post, this is an honest question, your answer would help me to understand the length and importance of the thread. Good day.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

maybe we should forget about the cosmos and get back to the pointless arguments with aziz. isn't that what this thread is all about?

Indirectly, since he is touting the Quran as having all of the answers about everything important - like creation and the beginnings of humanity - a brief divergence into modern biology or cosmology would be at least tangentially relevant.