The Qur'an

[aziz rasul]

The_Doc_Man, you'll do and say anything to deny. Any alternative theories regarding Qur'an 23:13-14 (post 511)?

 

[aziz rasul]

why do you always accompany the capitalized word HELLFIRE with a damn smiley face!? Hell isn't funny...

If you think you are not going to HELL, then why do you care whether I place a smiley or not if you are DAMNED

goo f b a ll

kama sabaq

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The_Doc_Man, you'll do and say anything to deny. Any alternative theories regarding Qur'an 23:13-14 (post 511)?

I'm a chemist rather than a biologist so this isn't my specialty, but I can say that animal husbandry and animal breeding date from times before Jesus. My objection is that YOU don't know when that bit about the clinging clot was known any better than the average person, yet you place undue emphasis on it. You have the "universe creation" mythos incorrectly described and now are clinging to your clot as though there is something miraculous. But I'm tiring of the argument with someone whose focus is on ascribing some significance to "mystically obtained knowledge" when YOU can't prove when it was known, either. You have a vested interest in having it NOT having been known earlier, so why would you bother to look? The problem is that you want me to question MY beliefs but you don't want to question your own beliefs. Which is the utmost in arrogance.

The Quran is boringly repetitive and you are equally repetitive, insisting that your words have mystical magical importance. But they don't. I wish you no ill, but I have to say that you are monotonous in your insistence on the meaning of those verses. You may, if you wish, take that as recognition that you are at least consistent. I firmly believe that YOU believe in what you say, if it is any consolation to you. But since I don't believe in any supernatural influence or knowledge, to me the Quran is just like any other religious book that applies repetition and admonition to try to warp the minds of its followers into mindless obedience to its mantras... 'scuse me, prayers. Thanks, but no thanks.

NOTE: Edited by The_Doc_Man for grammatical error correction.

 

[conception_native_0123]

then why do you care whether I place a smiley or not if you are DAMNED

because like I said....hell isn't a nice place. It's almost like you are telling the person you want them to go there with that smiley face. and if that's the case, you are definately not who you say you are.

 

[Mike Krailo]

A long video to watch. Can you summarize a couple of points so we can discuss. And while you are it, can you tell us if there are any contradictions of any kind in the Bible? Also, did Jesus (peace be upon him) preach the 4 gospels?

There are some rather stunning encodings of numbers to words and characters that authenticate the accuracy of the English translation and overall approval of Gods signature throughout the scriptures as it pertains to the King James version of the bible. In the referenced video the analysis derives a special number pattern of 17/23 in both the very first verse of the bible and the last verse of the bible. The all stems from the fact that God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. This is explained in the video but if you count the number of letters in the first verse Gen 1:1(KJV), there are 44 letters. The last verse of the New Testament Rev 22:21 also has 44 letters in it. You can check how many times this occurs in the bible and you might be surprised to find how rare it is. There is no other verse in the entire book of Revelations that has 44 letters in it, let alone landing on the very last verse of the bible!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created
the heaven and the earth.

Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus
Christ be with you all. Amen.

So where does the 17/27 come from? That comes from an examination of the ratio of vowels to consonants in those very same verses. There are exactly 17 vowels and 27 consonants in both the first verse of the bible and last verse of the bible. But what could that possibly mean?

If you look further into this 17/27 algorithm, you discover that 17 and 27 corresponds to the first and last days of Noah's flood.

Now it goes on to point out that those same verses show the first 17 letters Gen 1:1 points directly to God. Then the last 27 letters of Rev 22:21 show Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Further confirmation of 17/27 shows that last verse pointing to Jesus using 27 letters. So the number 17 is associated with the beginning and Jesus is associated with the end. But wait, isn't God the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End?

We all know that God's plainly obvious number is 7 and how that was arrived at is plain to anyone who has read it. I'm not going over that. If you go to the 777th chapter of the bible you arrive at Jeremiah 32, and lo and behold there is that number 17 again but this time spelled out as seventeen. This was the 17 shekels of silver that

Now count how many verses are in that chapter, you get 44 verses!!! It's starting to look like God's way of putting his coded signature on his word. In the picture below, there is number 7 by way of counting the letters in the first and last words of each of the two verses together. They are both 7 letters. This is where things really get interesting. The word Amen capitalized shows up exactly 77 times in the bible. The word "in" case insensitive shows up exactly 777 times in the two books Genesis and Revelation.

He is using a digital version which makes it easy to explore for these types of patterns obviously. When he put God and Jesus in there filtering on both books. The resulting occurrences is 343. What's special about 343? That's 7 cubed! Which leads right back to, you guessed it, 777. If you watch the video at around the 17 minute mark, he goes over the filters that correlated to the number 77777 which go through the entire bible using the first and last words of each of the key verses.

I am aware of the apparent contradictions that are in the bible. We all look at the world through our own eye's and have our own world view of what it means to us individually. In other words, we all have our own filters we put on so as not to upset our world view or belief system. As Galaxiom said earlier, the tendency to throw out what doesn't fit our world view is almost automatic. This is easy to see in others, but very difficult to be introspective on one's own filtered views. Clearly, if you look for contradictions or typo's in any book, you will find some because that is what you set out to do. Plus, you don't want to find out that the bible is without error and realize Muslims have got only part of the message and are missing out on the most relevant message for today's time period. Looking for contradictions and finding them makes it easier for you to just ignore the main message that has been codified by God himself through his Holy Spirit. This is very clear to those who have read through both the old and new testaments. Beware of false prophets is something each person has to do for themselves. Test the spirit that it is true to the word.

As far as the 4 gospels, they are the accounts from the witnesses to what Jesus did during his ministry and final important message that he gave all of his disciples before his death, resurrection, and ascension back into heaven. The message was to go out to all of the people and they were not to discriminate as to who the message was delivered. It's totally up to the receiver of the message whether they should come to the faith in Jesus as the true messianic person spoken about all throughout the bible in cleverly encoded ways that all believers can see clearly, but non-believers cannot see at all. Let's face it, we both believe we are right about our beliefs, and this extends to other religions as well, but not all of them can be right. We all have our reasons for ruling out one or the other.

Knowingness about things that are unknowable cannot be known unless they are revealed to us so I can understand why Mohamad was viewed as a special prophet. There is no other way to know about these things. God has made all of us with the ability to access him in a very personal way and flip the bit that opens the connection to him through our Lord and savior Jesus Christ the messiah. Once the connection is made, we also have the ability flip that bit off and drop the connection which sets us back on that same course of missing out on the greatest calling you can ever have, to serve God. Serving self leads to death and destruction in ways most people just will not realize until it is too late. We cannot serve two masters. The reason for life itself is to make that connection with God and keep that bit flipped to the on position as much as possible. Learning how to keep that bit set isn't always easy and in some cases could be burdensome, but most of us are not called to be martyrs for the faith, most are just required to listen to what the holy spirit is telling them to do and doing it according to God's will. Of course this is not blind Simon says jump off the cliff, and you jump. There has to be discernment to know which are the false prophets or spirits, and which one's are true to the Word. If you know the word, you know the true spirits and who you can listen to. If you don't know the word, there is a rather big danger that one could fall prey to false prophets and spirits that are clearly not of God. Whole religions or factions of religions are based on false prophets or information that is not of God. Muslims believe in the same God we do, but they are without the true account of his identity and purpose beyond that of a prophet. If you believe in works that lead to some kind of reward for obedience. None of that matters if you have not faith in the blood that covers all the sins of the world which only comes by way of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. There is just no other way and you cannot drive around it, you cannot fight with God about it, you cannot point out contradictions in the bible to hand wave it away. Without faith in him, you will be judged according to your deeds alone. Good luck with that. Remember what he said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That is as clear as day my friend. There is no direct way to the Father without following the letter of the law perfectly. Since this is not achievable by anyone that I know, it is clear why God the Father sent his son for us and on behalf of us who believe in him. There is no other way.

 

[aziz rasul]

How do I get the poster to come up when I use their quote?

 

[AccessBlaster]

@ symbol + name?

 

[Galaxiom]

How do I get the poster to come up when I use their quote?

Highlight what you are going to quote and click the Reply link that pops up.

If you already have a new post started it will insert the highlighted quote wherever the cursor is currently located in the reply.

 

[SachAccess]

May be dear @aziz rasul is very much busy these days hence I will safely assume that he does not get time to answer my silly doubts.
I am still unable to understand motive of this thread.

 

[aziz rasul]

Highlight what you are going to quote and click the Reply link that pops up.

If you already have a new post started it will insert the highlighted quote wherever the cursor is currently located in the reply.

Many thanks Galaxiom.

 

[aziz rasul]

I'm a chemist rather than a biologist so this isn't my specialty, but I can say that animal husbandry and animal breeding date from times before Jesus.

I'm neither a chemist\biologist\geologist\astronomer\ etc. etc. and don't see why that should stop me from appreciating\acknowledging it. At least give it some credence until you find evidence to the contrary, then you can change your mind and I will take notice as well.

Animal husbandry would have been around at the time of Adam, I would imagine. The point that I am making is that animal husbandry has no relevance to the microscopic level of human reproduction. Hence, in my opinion, it can't have been known at the time unless you can prove otherwise which I have asked you for. If not, then at least acknowledge that it's interesting that such a Qur'anic verse exists.

In addition, the Qur'an mentions that the sperm is a mixture of liquids and that the gender of the unborn child comes from the sperm, i.e. the father determines the gender despite that at the time, the mother was regarded as the person who determined this.

“Verily, We fashioned man from a small quantity of mingled (amchaj) liquids . . .”
Qur’an - Surah al-Insaan (Man) 76:2

37. “Was (man) not a small quantity of sperm which has been poured out?
38. After that, he was something which clings (alaq); then God fashioned him in due proportion and harmoniously.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Qiyaama (The Resurrection) 75:37-8

45. “(God) fashioned the two of a pair, the male and the female,
46. from a small quantity (of sperm) when it is poured out.”
Qur’an – Surah an-Najm (The Star) 53:45-6

You have the "universe creation" mythos incorrectly described

Have I?

The fact that the Qur'an mentions a clinging clot, written 1440 years, IS miraculous in my opinion.

But I'm tiring of the argument with someone whose focus is on ascribing some significance to "mystically obtained knowledge" when YOU can't prove when it was known,
either.

Divine knowledge. Well, YOU have miserably failed to provide proof when I asked you and all you have done in the biology bit is talk about "previous obtained knowledge" which you have not shown.

You have a vested interest in having it NOT having been known earlier, so why would you bother to look? The problem is that you want me to question
MY beliefs but you don't want to question your own beliefs. Which is the utmost in arrogance.

You have a vested interest in having it KNOWN earlier, despite not bothering to look and having no answer? The problem is that you want me to question MY beliefs but you don't want to question your own beliefs. Which adds to your arrogance.

The Quran is ...

The Qur'an is the FINAL Scripture given by God as a Book which repetitively warns the disbelievers and repetitively gives glad tidings to the believers. As the former applies to you, that's why you find it boring. Those who end up in HELLFIRE will be anything but bored

I wish you no ill, but I have to say that you are monotonous in your insistence on the rejection of those verses.

You may, if you wish, take that as recognition that you are at least consistent.

I firmly believe that YOU know what I am saying, but you want to reject it out of hand while I am trying to help you in your Hereafter and end up in Paradise for eternity. Many others wouldn't bother. I'm not intereted in any thanks.

 

[aziz rasul]

pointless arguments with aziz.

You seem to keep back for more

And they will CRY OUT therein, "Our Lord, remove us; we will do righteousness - other than what we were doing!" But did We not grant you life enough for whoever would remember therein to remember, and the WARNER had come to you? So taste [the PUNISHMENT], for there is not for the WRONGDOERS any helper.
Qur'an 35:37

6. For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of HELL: and evil is (such), Destination.
7. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it BLAZES forth,
8. Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"
9. They will say: "Yes indeed; a Warner did come to us, but we rejected him and said, 'Allaah never sent down any (Message): ye are nothing but an egregious delusion!'"
10. They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we should not (now) be among the Companions of the BLAZING FIRE!"
11. They will then confess their sins: but far will be (Forgiveness) from the Companions of the BLAZING FIRE!
Qur’an - Surah al-Mulk (The Sovereignty) 67:6-11

This is the only type of reply I can give to a person like you. I will keep reminding you of HELL

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The Qur'an is the FINAL Scripture given by God as a Book which repetitively warns the disbelievers and repetitively gives glad tidings to the believers.

Unless, of course, you give any credence to the Book of Mormon.

Beware of discounting it, though, because that opens the way for us to discount the Quran for the same reason that you use to discount the Book of Mormon.

Well, YOU have miserably failed to provide proof when I asked you and all you have done in the biology bit is talk about "previous obtained knowledge" which you have not shown.

But YOU have miserably failed to show that this knowledge was NOT available at the time. My point is simple. NEITHER of us can unequivocally prove the point, so to hold it up for all to see is a case of the Emperor's Clothes. Claiming this knowledge is in some way miraculous presupposes that the Quran is in some way divine, but that point is not proved.

 

[aziz rasul]

There are some rather stunning encodings

I asked whether you believed that the Bible has any contradictions, you gave no answer.

The Qur'an also has numerical miracles. However, to appreciate this kind of miracle, you have to have certain pre-conditions in my opinion i.e.

1. The Scripture has to come from God via a Prophet
2. The Scripture has remained unchanged in the original revealed language and not been changed by man

As far as the Qur'an is concerned, all 2 points above are valid.

However, point 1 is valid for the original Torah (in Hebrew) which was revealed to Moses (peace be upon him) and the original Injeel (in Aramaic) which was revealed to Jesus (peace be upon him). But point 2 is not valid as the Torah has been changed and the Injeel didn't survive.

The 4 Gospels were not revealed by God, but man made (even though there are some verses that agree with Islam) , so doesn't even count. Anyone can fix a man made document to be anything they want it to be.

 

[aziz rasul]

I might be completely wrong here.

Your words. Most of the rest of your post isn't worth answering and would be a waste of my time.

What is the outcome or motive of your post ...

See the title of the thread. The motive is to share the knowledge of Islam so that you can learn something new.

if I am facing any issue about a SQL query, motive of post would be to get the help to solve the issue

I suggest you go to another part of the forum for that. You don't even seem to know that you are in the Watercooler.

 

[aziz rasul]

to answer my silly doubts.

Your words.

 

[pbaldy]

because you fool,

Adam, I'm wondering how your priest/preacher/God would feel about your calling people names. Not favorably I'm guessing. You can treat people with respect even if you disagree with them.

 

[aziz rasul]

Unless, of course, you give any credence to the Book of Mormon.

The Qur'an is the LAST Testament from God, so the Book of Mormon doesn't count as it came afterwards.

Beware of discounting it, though, because that opens the way for us to discount the Quran for the same reason that you use to discount the Book of Mormon.

Which you have already done.

But YOU have miserably failed to show that this knowledge was NOT available at the time.

But if the microscope wasn't invented then, how would I prove a negative? It's YOU that aren't prepared to admit the facts and are running away from them. Carry on running.

The Qur'an, IMHO IS Divine. We are free to accept or reject it as we wish.

There will be no place to HIDE in the Hereafter on the Day of Judgement.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Because there will BE no day of judgment, and therefore hiding will be rather pointless.

 

[aziz rasul]

Because there will BE no day of judgment, and therefore hiding will be rather pointless.

Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away.
Qur'an 21:1

12. And when Hellfire is set ablaze
13. And when Paradise is brought near,
14. A soul will [then] know what it has brought [with it].
Qur'an 81:12-4

So, by the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it (the Day of Recompense) is a reality, as sure as the fact that you (can) speak.
Qur'an 51:23

And brought [within view], that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance?
Qur'an 89:23

71. And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, "Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.
72. [To them] it will be said, "Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant."
73. But those who feared their Lord will be driven to Paradise in groups until, when they reach it while its gates have been opened and its keepers say, "Peace be upon you; you have become pure; so enter it to abide eternally therein," [they will enter].
Qur'an 39:71-3