The Root of Democracy

[vba_php]

you are in essence showing NO INTELLECT WHATSOEVER.

what do you want me to do Richard draw you a model that I learned in college? An economic graph or something? What I'm simply saying is that economic models are nothing more than methods by which mankind is using so mankind doesn't have to kill itself like they did during the Roman Empire days. If you look at it it's actually quite interesting what kind of incarnations mankind has gone through from 2,000 years ago until today whereby they went through periods of barbaric nature and then they went through periods of establishing systems so they didn't have to kill each other anymore which has led us to where we are today. When I'm talking about when I say you guys think too much is simply that if you keep thinking the way you're thinking that you might end up part of the inevitable War that's coming in the future. Eventually the system fails Richard it's inevitable it doesn't matter how much you think and it doesn't matter how much you know because without Believe In Christ there's nothing left. And if you want the truth of the matter in terms of which country is the worst out of every country in the world it would certainly be America now that America has invaded every other country of the world and taken out taken its economic nonsense to everybody even if they don't want to adapt to it.

 

[deletedT]

Of course I'm biased you ridiculous old man that's the point of knowing Christ.

Did Christ taught you to be disrespectful to others?
Or being humble was one of his main teachings?

 

[vba_php]

Did Christ taught you to be disrespectful to others?
Or being humble was one of his main teachings?

like you should say anything, Tera.

furthermore, you should know by now that comments like that mean absolutely nothing to richard, so it doesn't matter what I say. It boggles my mind why you keep insisting that it's actually a put down. lol. but then again, I know how Japan culture is, and the obsession with respecting elders over there so I'm not surprised you keep saying that.

 

[deletedT]

you should know by now that comments like that mean absolutely nothing to richard, so it doesn't matter what I say. ........ but then again, I know how Japan culture is, and the obsession with respecting elders over there so I'm not surprised you keep saying that.

My bad. I promise it won't happen again. You're right. I'm obsessed with it.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

@vba_php

There is a difference between a model and the actual thing. There is a difference between the map and the territory. There is a difference between having an economic model and having an economy. There is a difference between having a brain and having consciousness or self-awareness.

When we talk about "the economy" it may be a little too abstract for you, Adam, but it still exists. The models, however inaccurate they are, still can be used to make predictions. That ability is, scientifically speaking, one of the tests of something's existence. The ability to model it and make accurate predictions means that the thing being predicted is not a total dream. It has some substance to it.

Stated another way, it is true that the map is not the territory but without a territory there could be no map at all. Just because YOU don't think there is an economy, that doesn't mean you are right.

 

[vba_php]

Just because YOU don't think there is an economy, that doesn't mean you are right.

it was a religious truth richard. the fact is, that IS the truth. but the *material* truth, which is yours, is that there has to be a system in place to control human beings and further the world until the end. no doubt that is true as well. so material and unseen.....2 different sides to the story. you and me. christ and the world. seen and unseen. faith vs. materialism. the battle rages on....wouldn't you say, old man?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Adam, in regards to an intellectual battle between us, I have been trying to follow the Geneva Conventions against attacking an unarmed man. But you are SO inviting a target that sometimes I forget myself.

And I have to (seriously) challenge you with regard to suggesting that the Bible has ANYTHING to say about whether there IS or IS NOT such a thing as an economy. Offer book, chapter, and verse, please, or be silent on this subject. Don't forget that though I have not memorized the Bible, I HAVE read it thoroughly when I was younger. In fact, as previously mentioned, it was the act of really carefully reading the Bible that made me an atheist.

 

[vba_php]

In fact, as previously mentioned, it was the act of really carefully reading the Bible that made me an atheist.

and what section was that? I would be interested in knowing that part

 

[The_Doc_Man]

A fair question, but it wasn't a single part of the Bible; it was the overall thrust and tone. I finally realized what the Bible really was by considering its known history. Remember, you asked the question.

The Bible does not tell us of God. It is a set of written transcriptions of stories that ancient people told about their beliefs in God using an allegorical story-telling style. The Bible is NOT eyewitness testimony. It is a set of stories meant to illustrate a point.

That bears simple repetition: The Bible is NOT about God. It is about the beliefs held by simple, primitive, superstitious people; beliefs in a being they called God.

They believed in God because they didn't have adequate scientific knowledge to explain their world. So as happened with ALL similarly primitive people, they made up stories to explain their beliefs to their children.

In that purpose, it has the same exact status as Aesop's Fables or Grimm's Faerie Tales. The Bible lists stories and oral traditions meant to amaze, amuse, and admonish small children who didn't have radio, TV, newspapers, smart phones, or video games. These were the bedtime stories of a 2000-years-ago culture. The storytellers were the lore-keepers of the primitive shepherd tribes and a lot of the stories in the Bible are just written copies of their stories preserved in ink on papyrus, parchment, or vellum.

It is important when considering this to note that a LOT of the stories of the Bible parallel stories from earlier cultures. The story of Jesus parallels the story of Horus (of Egypt) - which in turn parallels the story of Gilgamesh of ancient Babylon. Satan as the ruler of Hell parallels stories of Hades, the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The name Hell, though, comes from Hela, the NORSE Goddess of Death. We talk about "Hell freezing over" but in Norse mythology, it already IS frozen and miserably cold because it is in an obscure corner of Frostheim. And the name Hell is a shortened form of the name Hela, who reigned as queen of that region. The flames of Hell are derived from the pits of Tartarus, the Greek version of the bad place in the afterlife. The great flood is a crib from an ancient Sumerian story of flooding, and even THAT story isn't original.

Adam, your problem is that you don't read enough books to see beyond the confines of the Christian culture. You can't see the parallels because you have avoided the books that reveal them. You will probably claim lack of interest. But you did ask why reading the Bible turned me towards atheism. The simple answer is that I have read enough to see the parallels and draw my own conclusions rather than have some preacher tell me what to think.

 

[vba_php]

They believed in God because they didn't have adequate scientific knowledge to explain their world. So as happened with ALL similarly primitive people, they made up stories to explain their beliefs to their children.

this is exactly where you're off, richard. the acquisition of material knowledge is a man made problem, which is also exactly why no scripture is being breathed out by God in this day in age - because of the problem you and others suffer from. but again, that is inevitable, and it took literally thousands of years for people like you to appear on earth and say what you are now saying. if you can't see that, there's nothing I can do to help you out. the increases of scientific knowledge is inevitable in human beings, just like you have said. but ultimately, it will end in their utter destruction as well. and on that day, the non-believers will be thrown downstairs with the rest that have contributed to bringing about the end. remember, the wrath of God only happens on one day, in the future. whereas, in the past, it only happened on day, and that was the day of the flood and the first destruction of all things. the second destruction will be christ's anger, through the father, not the father alone like in the days of the flood.

but like I've said before, I can't tell you where you're going, but if you don't believe what I'm telling you, it can't be good and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

 

[AccessBlaster]

@vba_php

and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

What does the bible say about hypocrisy? Hmm lets see.

1. Matthew 6:1
   “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2. Matthew 7:1-29
   “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
   
   
   
   
   

 

[vba_php]

In terms of Matthew that has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not practicing righteousness in front of other people but furthermore electronic communication has nothing to do with anything anyway. It's heart to heart, soul to soul and person to person that matters. This is why I hope to God that the Catholic Church never allows confessions to take place through electronic means. That's about the dumbest thing that anybody has ever proposed inside the church. In terms of the other that also has nothing to do with this because Richard is not bothered by my words. It's a tit-for-tat thing. Its a back and forth thing that virtually has never had any substance. God already knows this and so do you. Not to mention the fact that Richard and I are not Brothers, either through family or faith

 

[AccessBlaster]

In terms of Matthew that has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not practicing righteousness in front of other people but furthermore electronic communication has nothing to do with anything anyway

I see, you have a loop-hole? Can you point to scripture where that loop-hole is applicable.

 

[vba_php]

I see, you have a loop-hole? Can you point to scripture where that loop-hole is applicable.

it says nothing in scripture about Electronics I'm sure you know that don't you. But in terms of practicing righteousness I'm not practicing righteousness in front of you guys so I don't even know where the hell you got a hold of that claim

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

they made up stories to explain their beliefs to their children

Although I agree the stories are made up, I also understand that they are based on people's intuition & instinct.

If analysed properly, the stories give incredible insight into the human psyche.

the stories chart human evolution before we had the ability to write them down the stories were passed down through the generations by rote.

Why? Why was it considered necessary to preserve the stories?

This would confer a value on the stories, the fact that they have been preserved for possibly 20000 years.

Take for example the story of Moses and the 10 commandments. It is obvious that Moses never went up the mountain and met God and god gave him the ten commandments but it is known that Moses was a renowned leader of his people and a judge over many disputes between people.

How did Moses decide?

He would have used his experience is intuition & instinct.

As the years past, like an ancient Judge Judy Moses would have honed his skill in passing judgement.

As the population grew it became necessary to have other Judges and to develop a universal system. A record of how the law worked was developed and this was called the ten commandments, although there were many more than that.

The Adam and Eve story although it does have a fairytale quality about it once you dig into it you start to see that it is a well-honed exploration of man, a wonderful insight into the period of time when the man's brain changed from animalistic into to something capable of thought.

the Bible is not a collection of meaningless children's stories, it is a collection of vast knowledge won over millennia.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'm not practicing righteousness in front of you guys...

Why not? You condemn Doc to eternal damnation with some type of authority.

 

[vba_php]

You condemn Doc to eternal damnation with some type of authority.

oh really? I don't have that authority. what makes you think i did that? I may have said things that made it sound like that, but doing it is something else.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

which is also exactly why no scripture is being breathed out by God in this day in age

I believe I have a simpler explanation for this lack of new scripture, primarily involving the absence of someone to do that breathing.

it took literally thousands of years for people like you to appear on earth and say what you are now saying

Well, duh... It took us thousands of years to step our way through science to our current level of understanding. You must really like tautologies.

I can't tell you where you're going, but if you don't believe what I'm telling you, it can't be good and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

Actually, I can tell you exactly where you and I will be going, and you WILL be in my shoes (so to speak). We will cease to exist. When we die, we are gone. This is a case where Ecclesiastes got it right (Eccl 9:5 and a couple of verses after that). All thoughts cease. There is no awareness, there is NOTHING. You just aren't there. Where does a lightbulb's light go when you pull the plug? The energy dissipates and attenuates to nothingness. But don't worry, Adam, you won't feel pain, sorrow, grief, or anger. Or anything else. No judgment. No condemnation. No rewards either, though. Still, there will be no disappointment because you will not be conscious of the fact that there is no Heaven or Hell either.

Not to mention the fact that Richard and I are not Brothers, either through family or faith

But then, the prophet Mohamed says, "If you mingle your affairs, are you not brothers?" We have certainly mingled a lot in this forum. Are you now going to insult every Muslim person on this board by denying the validity of Islam's teachings, Adam? Watch out because doing so is like running barefoot into a mine field.

Although I agree the stories are made up, I also understand that they are based on people's intuition & instinct.

I have tried to clarify that I still use the Bible for some of its wisdom. I just don't attribute its origins to any form of divinity. And I draw from other sources of wisdom as well.

 

[vba_php]

Are you now going to insult every Muslim person on this board by denying the validity of Islam's teachings, Adam?

hmmmm.....well I spose I can say something. there is a lot of falseness out there. and that's one of them. that and the stupid new concept of "progressive christianity". but sure enough, some muslim dude is reading this and this will draw fire. like I care though....matter of fact, I saw some dude's avatar on this forum a while back and the person in the photo was wearing a turban. I hope it's not him that's reading it!

I once told a muslim woman on LI, in her own arabic language, that Jesus was the only God, and she never responded. that was after 5 back and forths between her and I, before she finally ran into the brick wall. you see richard? muslims don't like the truth that Christ preached when he was here either. but luckily, for her, until the final war of all the nations comes about, she doesn't have to be bothered by the truth of Christ anymore because American bull$hit capitalism keeps everyone too busy to care about the truth anymore, or even realize what they're doing for that matter. sadly though, that will be a great contributor to what you are in danger of getting involved in, in the future. =(

 

[Darrell]

...and she never responded.

Maybe she was smart enough to realise that trying to compare her imaginary friend with yours was a waste of her time