You are a Racist, a Bigot and a Sexist.

[Vassago]

:banghead:
I give up , I do wonder if people read what is actually written

Reread the last sentence of my first paragraph and tell me how it differs to what you wrote.

Brian

I didn't say it was different. I just said it was THEIR problem, not the problem of the people it actually involves. They can get over it. I don't care what they find "icky."

I sometimes wonder if people actually read what I say...

 

[Brianwarnock]

They find it confusing and difficult because of their prejudices. That is their problem.

I can pretty much agree with the rest of the post but this is unhelpful and even naive. We do not say that people who come on this forum wanting help because they don't understand Access handling of dates as prejudiced against the US , they come because they are ignorant, as in don't know how to handle it.
We are all ignorant of many things, and handling same sex unions is new for the vast majority of us, there is no established language. My grandson refers to his parents as mum and dad, what do those in a same sex situation call them? I don't know, it's confusing, why is that prejudice?

Try education instead of insults.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

We do not say that people who come on this forum wanting help because they don't understand Access handling of dates as prejudiced against the US , they come because they are ignorant, as in don't know how to handle it.

Neither do we insist that our legislators ban all programs that use US dates.

Some Access users rant about the "stupid US dates". We tell them to get over it because that is how it is.

We are all ignorant of many things, and handling same sex unions is new for the vast majority of us, there is no established language. My grandson refers to his parents as mum and dad, what do those in a same sex situation call them?

Whatever the family chooses.

My granddaughter has multiple "Nannas". When in a context where there is no ambiguity they are just referrd to a "Nanna". If they need clarification then the initial of their first name is appended.

We used this scheme and as children do with language, she worked out the use of context for herself before she was five years old. Why is it that some adults make such an issue of something that a five year old takes in their stride?

I don't know, it's confusing, why is that prejudice?

Not understanding is not prejudice. Those who insist that they cannot or will not learn to deal with it are prejudiced.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Here to disambiguate grandparents the surname is usually used, for my generation it was not expected that children would use adults' first names, but times change and perhaps that is what same sex children will do, maybe mumJ and MumB or just Julie and Brenda. Simple in the family and I guess that as long as they tell people such as teachers then they too will cope without either putting their foot in it or confusing the child.

You and Vass and I seem to be seeing this from different perspectives, you appear to say that the families have no problem therefore everyone else should just get over it, whereas I see that the outsiders with no idea how to express themselves in away that won't confuse or upset do have a problem that they need help with.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Bear with me while I tell you a little story.
A walking friend and I were picked up from the station by her husband, it was the first time he and I had met and he wanted to talk, it's what he does he is a hospital visitor, but his approach seemed a little awkward until his wife suddenly said, " Brian's married he's got a wife called Hazel, get on with it"

He turned to me and said that during his hospital visits he has learned that he has to be very careful in his approach as there are so many different situations in relationships and some people are unforgiving if you get it wrong.

That is we're I am coming from on this language issue.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

You and Vass and I seem to be seeing this from different perspectives, you appear to say that the families have no problem therefore everyone else should just get over it, whereas I see that the outsiders with no idea how to express themselves in away that won't confuse or upset do have a problem that they need help with.

You have previously posted that relationships with same sex partners should not be even mentioned in schools because they are not "the norm".

This implicit denial of the existence of such relationships leads directly to the surprise and confusion you speak of.

Wouldn't it be better to acknowledge that they are part of the range of normal relationships? Then everyone would avoid the confusion.

Many years ago children from single parent families were often made to feel second class precisely because everyone expected "the norm" of the day. The situation changed because such families became part of the norm by being acknowledged as such.

Acceptance of families with same sex partners will go the same way when they are acknowledged as being part of the variety of human conditions.

 

[Galaxiom]

Bear with me while I tell you a little story.
A walking friend and I were picked up from the station by her husband, it was the first time he and I had met and he wanted to talk, it's what he does he is a hospital visitor, but his approach seemed a little awkward until his wife suddenly said, " Brian's married he's got a wife called Hazel, get on with it"

He turned to me and said that during his hospital visits he has learned that he has to be very careful in his approach as there are so many different situations in relationships and some people are unforgiving if you get it wrong.

That is we're I am coming from on this language issue.

Brian

I don't really understand the significance of this story.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I don't really understand the significance of this story.

It was an attempt , which obviously failed, to illustrate that even the best intentioned people have difficulty dealing with all of the relationship permutations that exist today, partially because people can be intolerant of perceived insults or errors.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

You have previously posted that relationships with same sex partners should not be even mentioned in schools because they are not "the norm".

Wrong, I said that I did not agree that it should be actively taught in primary schools, heterosexual relationships are not actively taught, they just appear in the books, the same should happen to homosexual relationships .

I would suggest that you read post#35 again but you chose to misrepresent it the first time.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Wrong, I said that I did not agree that it should be actively taught in primary schools, heterosexual relationships are not actively taught, they just appear in the books, the same should happen to homosexual relationships .

I would suggest that you read post#35 again but you chose to misrepresent it the first time.

Brian

But tolerance is taught. To Galaxiom's point, single parents weren't the norm in the 50s and they were often outcasts through no fault of their own, but only, as you said, the ignorance of others. It was only through acceptance and understanding being taught at an early age that children became more accepting of this. We obviously know today there is nothing abnormal about a single parent family.

You and Vass and I seem to be seeing this from different perspectives, you appear to say that the families have no problem therefore everyone else should just get over it, whereas I see that the outsiders with no idea how to express themselves in away that won't confuse or upset do have a problem that they need help with.

I agree! They do need help with it. It's still a problem of ignorance rather than a problem with the relationship. Why should ignorance have precedence over teaching tolerance. We don't need a special teaching for gay marriage, we just need to change the way marriage is defined and characterized. If we make no distinction between homo and hetero marriage, then what is the problem?

 

[Vassago]

Here to disambiguate grandparents the surname is usually used, for my generation it was not expected that children would use adults' first names, but times change and perhaps that is what same sex children will do, maybe mumJ and MumB or just Julie and Brenda. Simple in the family and I guess that as long as they tell people such as teachers then they too will cope without either putting their foot in it or confusing the child.

Brian

You are arguing semantics. These titles are just words. Do you really think it's that confusing to have more than one mom? I had two dads and called them both dad growing up. Sometimes they were even in the same room. It didn't cause any severe confusion, paradox, or apocalypse.

 

[FoundOil]

Galaxiom and Vassago - your adopted parents argument dilutes my dilution argument. My brother recently married a woman with three kids and he treats them as if he were their dad, they call him "Dad" and they have a great little family. Though I won't fully back down because I think there is validity to it and Brian has made some great, though unacknowledged, points as well in support of it. I also admit my STD argument was not applied well to marriage. I was thinking about homosexuality in general and yes, it is also a problem among promiscuous heterosexuals. And, I suppose if gay marriage was commonly accepted and legalized that it would promote more commitment to one partner in that community. My other brother and his male partner are very committed to each other and have a better friendship/relationship than I do in my marriage with my wife. But them getting together broke up his partners marriage and caused a lot confusion in that family (he has 4 or 5 kids). Was it worth the cost?

We can go round and round with the points we've been discussing. But, this is the central, core, issue and you can’t ignore it or belittle it or try to make it irrelevant because it is all relevant: I know there is a God and that Jesus is His Son and the Savior and Creator of our world. I’m as sure of that as I am sure I’m typing on my computer right now. I have felt Him, powerfully, in my life as I read scriptures, go to Church and try living the way He taught us to live. Do I believe that he loves and cares about everybody? Of course. But for some reason, the Lord has made it clear through his apostles and prophets that marriage is between a man and a woman. That sexual relations are not meant to be entertainment or sport, but are sacred and only to be had within the bonds of marriage. Anything outside of that is not approved of in His eyes. He hasn’t revealed anything differently. Who is weak and puny man to try and tell our Creator that we know better than Him?

 

[Brianwarnock]

You are arguing semantics. These titles are just words. Do you really think it's that confusing to have more than one mom? I had two dads and called them both dad growing up. Sometimes they were even in the same room. It didn't cause any severe confusion, paradox, or apocalypse.

You just don't get it do you, obviously it is not a problem in the family, the only point you and Galaxiom keep making, it is others who may have the confusion.
My family has met that confusion by stepping outside the norm, not for themselves but for others.

My eldest daughter is married but refused to change her surname , my youngest is not married, for reasons I'm not about to discuss here, and has two children who have her partner's surname .
They accept any "mistakes" others make with a smile and a tolerance that hopefully the homosexual community will also display.
Why do you think you are the only one not bog standard normal?

 

[ColinEssex]

I know there is a God and that Jesus is His Son and the Savior and Creator of our world. I’m as sure of that as I am sure I’m typing on my computer right now. I have felt Him, powerfully, in my life as I read scriptures, go to Church and try living the way He taught us to live. Do I believe that he loves and cares about everybody? Of course.

That statement would make a good discussion topic. You appear to have hard evidence instead of the usual airy fairy belief that others have.

Col

 

[FoundOil]

That statement would make a good discussion topic. You appear to have hard evidence instead of the usual airy fairy belief that others have.Col

If you want to start a new thread, I'll subscribe to it.

 

[RainLover]

It was not that long ago in my memory that the big issue was "Do we teach our children sexual education in schools or should we leave it to the parents."

 

[ColinEssex]

It was not that long ago in my memory that the big issue was "Do we teach our children sexual education in schools or should we leave it to the parents."

What was the outcome? Usually they learn from their peers or through practice don't they?

That's the old trusted way we learnt it.

Col

 

[RainLover]

What was the outcome? Usually they learn from their peers or through practice don't they?

That's the old trusted way we learned it.

Col

And if one Boy played with another boy he was soon told it was wrong.

Not like these days when they say "How Nice'

I have " XXXXXX" who is Gay. The only reason I feel he is like that is because of what a neighbuor did to him over a period of time when he was young.

Others just simple think it is fashionable to bat for the other team..

 

[Galaxiom]

I have " XXXXXX" who is Gay. The only reason I feel he is like that is because of what a neighbuor did to him over a period of time when he was young.

Others just simple think it is fashionable to bat for the other team..

Showing your prejudices again. Your opinion is not backed by the science.

Indeed very little of what you have posted on this thread makes any sense at all.

 

[RainLover]

If you are looking for scientific proof the closest thing you are going to be able to find is Kinsey's studies into sexuality.
Unfortunately due to the restrictions in the field of psychology to do with ethics, studies such as the one he completed are now unable to be reproduced. However his study is the most widespread psychological study into peoples sex life.
He found a wide range of reasons that can be attributed as to why people prefer the same sex as themselves.
There are people that have known almost their entire life that they are homosexual and there have even been recent studies that show that in some homosexuals there are differences in brain chemistry that seems to support this theory.
Other people have a history of childhood trauma, while others only participate in homosexual behaviour when on business trips and yet others only partake in homosexual behaviour at certain stages in their life.
This has ALL been documented by Kinsey but you are not going to be able to find one psychological theory that is able to explain why some people are gay and some are straight. Everyone is different, there only seems to be some observable trends and this is what I base my argument upon.