Ukraine (1 Viewer)

[Jon]

Trump is the only President in more than a generation that didn't start a millinery conflict.

Trump deserves a lot more credit than he got. I remember him lambasting many of the NATO countries who were not paying their fair share for membership, and in particular Germany, who was paying around 1%, and not the contractual 2% per year. Finally, after the Russian invasion, they have agreed to up it to 2%.

Also, he gave Germany a strong talking to about enriching Russia by spending so much money on their gas.

I think his approach to speak to the leaders, be they "Little Rocket Man" or Putin was the right way to go.

 

[Pat Hartman]

We have made Putin a number of promises over the years regarding NATO expansion and broken every one of them. Whether Putin actually feels that Russia is being threatened or not is moot. We violated our promises and that gives him the moral high ground in this particular argument. Starting a war is extreme but he is a despot and WE knew that. There was no need to push him over the edge. What did pushing a madman do for us that was in any way positive? Why would it ever be positive to publicly threaten someone like Putin? Why force him to make a statement? Trump never did that. Trump publicly embarrassed Kim but he would never publicly embarrass Putin. He stroked Putin. He wanted Putin to play nice and Trump got him to. The idiots who pushed Putin into attacking Ukraine think Trump was wrong to be publicly respectful of Putin. Who was right?

 

[Jon]

@Steve R.
I may be wrong but your posts give me the impression your attacks to Biden is based on the party he belongs to. I simply can not imagine you would have said the same IF he was one of your side politicians and has done or said the same.

Another way to view it is that a Conservative perspective tends to differ from a Liberal perspective. Attacks on Biden may be due to his liberal views and policy that differs from Conservative opinion.

 

[Jon]

We have made Putin a number of promises over the years regarding NATO expansion and broken every one of them. Whether Putin actually feels that Russia is being threatened or not is moot. We violated our promises and that gives him the moral high ground in this particular argument. Starting a war is extreme but he is a despot and WE knew that. There was no need to push him over the edge. What did pushing a madman do for us that was in any way positive? Why would it ever be positive to publicly threaten someone like Putin? Why force him to make a statement?

Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. Is that not a broken promise? What has that got to do wtih NATO? Didn't he also get into Georgia? Maybe the historians here can clarify that one.

No one forced Putin to do anything. It is all this personal choice. He can do what he wants in his own country. Unless you are saying his statement that he had no choice but to invade Ukraine is a true statement. There were plenty of opportunities for diplomacy.

I do agree with you on one thing though Pat, he is a madman.

 

[Jon]

Sanctions have not worked in curbing Putin's excesses.

Sanctions take time to work. When the economy declines and his oligarchs and civilians turn against him, the job will be done.

 

[Pat Hartman]

We agree that Putin is a madman with expansionist desires. He chose weak US presidents to make his moves because he knew they wouldn't challenge him. He may have invaded Ukraine anyway but we gave him reason and opportunity to do it NOW. More likely, he would have snipped off a couple of the eastern provinces. Bad, but it doesn't destroy Ukraine completely. The UN is impotent. Are they going to kick Russia out? Are they at least going to remove Russia from the security council? No, we will do neither. Putin wins again because he timed his moves correctly. The really scary thing is that XI is watching this all play out and Taiwan is next. If NATO and the UN don't take on Russia, Taiwan is dead meat.

 

[Jon]

I think you are right about choosing now because Biden is too sleepy and weak. He just doesn't have enough energy!

But I don't think Putin wins. I think this could lead to his downfall. Russian's will feel the impact of sanctions and isolation. The cause lies with the actions of one man: Adolf Putin.

The world has responded well to Putin's invasion and I think China has taken note. They want to take over Taiwan themselves, probably by force. But the level of sanctions raised against Russia will give them pause for though. China is much more reliant on the West than Russia. Sanctions would hit hard. I remember Trump raising tariffs on China to 20%. That hurt them.

The Belarusian leader is saying sanctions are worse than war, and that the West is pushing Russia into a nuclear war. Very helpful.

 

[conception_native_0123]

If his concern is NATO membership, what the hell has all that got to do with it?

if it's not NATO membership, then what is it Jon?

 

[Jon]

He wants to digest the local countries, on his quest for expanding his borders.

Putin has said the collapse of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest disasters of modern history.

 

[conception_native_0123]

Putin has said the collapse of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest disasters of modern history.

so he's trying to reverse it?

 

[Pat Hartman]

Also, having to pay for entrance on "Ladies Night" in nightclubs, which was often a Friday. Women get in free. Is that discriminating based on gender?

It is discriminatory but since guys frequently go to bars to pick up women, it increases the pickings

Sanctions take time to work.

This threat has been growing for months with troops massing on the border. Maybe instead of the US buying gas from Russia, we should be pumping more of our own. That isn't even a sanction per se. But It goes against the wishes of the far left who would rather see us all walking rather than driving a car. They are so ideological about this they keep trying to buy oil from Iran. They think that is preferable to pumping our own or even buying from Canada. They enrich our enemies rather than our friends. That's what ideologs do.

 

[Jon]

so he's trying to reverse it?

In my, and many peoples opinion. No one knows for sure, because you are not inside anyones brain.

 

[Jon]

This threat has been growing for months with troops massing on the border. Maybe instead of the US buying gas from Russia, we should be pumping more of our own. That isn't even a sanction per se. But It goes against the wishes of the far left who would rather see us all walking rather than driving a car. They are so ideological about this they keep trying to buy oil from Iran. They think that is preferable to pumping our own or even buying from Canada. They enrich our enemies rather than our friends. That's what ideologs do.

The US imports millions of barrels of oil each year from Russia. Biden's policy is preventing the US from being energy independent, something Trump managed to achieve. Closing down that pipeline...was that from Canada or something?

 

[conception_native_0123]

In my, and many peoples opinion. No one knows for sure, because you are not inside anyones brain.

well I wish him luck with that! geez.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The pipeline was intended to ship oil from the tar sands of Canada to be refined in the US. Biden cost us millions by shutting down construction and essentially abandoning all work in process and all the already purchased and delivered building materials. It would take a year to restart the process and no company in their right mind would take on the job without payment up front for the whole thing given the losses on the uncompleted project. It's the same thing with the border fence in Texas. The government walked away from millions of dollars of partially complete work and unused material and when Texas tried to BUY it from the feds, they refused!!!

 

[Jon]

So instead of finishing the pipeline, buy the barrels from Russia, the enemy. Smart move! Not!

 

[Pat Hartman]

It is the ideolog position. It doesn't have to make sense. It only needs to "feel" good. Because these are truly good and caring people. I'm pretty sure they don't know how the electricity that powers their electric cars is generated. They have pushed us so far away from the best power source -nuclear - that it would take years before we could even get through the approvals to bring a new plant on line.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I remember Trump raising tariffs on China to 20%. That hurt them.

and Biden immediately removed them

The Belarusian leader is saying sanctions are worse than war, and that the West is pushing Russia into a nuclear war. Very helpful.

Belarus should be sanctioned also for aiding and abetting the invasion.

 

[ColinEssex]

I'm waiting for the yanks to overreact to the crisis, that seems the norm, make a dogs breakfast of it then retreat.
I see Americans are protesting at the White House, so I daresay those irresponsible parents will allow their children to go in and smash the place up.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I daresay those irresponsible parents will allow their children to go in and smash the place up.

When Trump supporters did this, it was called treason, insurrection, and a few other nasty names. When BIDEN supporters do it, it will be relegated to a footnote on the last page of the national news section of some sensationalist rag of a newspaper or tabloid.