The Most... (2 Viewers)

[WayneRyan]

Guess it's time for the next question,

Is this a great day or ... ?

Wayne

 

[ColinEssex]

As is Chergh, surely?
Both he and Colin called it as they saw it.

Not exactly - I merely quoted a comment that was on TV the other night.

Chergh as usual resorted to a personal name calling attack, obviously I could lower myself to that gutter level but decided not to.

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

As is Chergh, surely?
Both he and Colin called it as they saw it.

Chergh's post was a very personel attack on another poster, who in his first paragraph probaby expressed the opinions of atleast a great many , if not the majority, of the British people. His next paragraph might have been OTT as many immigrants successfully and willingly integrated into British society.
Actually one of the strongest critics I know of the current British immigration policy and the attitude of the latest waves of immigrants is my Hungarian friend who came over in '56.

Brian

 

[chergh]

My post was an attack on a racist. Racism is completely repugnant and quite frankly anyone who holds those views is a piece of scum.

As for the gutter colin, with those views that is exactly where you are.

 

[ColinEssex]

My post was an attack on a racist. Racism is completely repugnant and quite frankly anyone who holds those views is a piece of scum.

As for the gutter colin, with those views that is exactly where you are.

Oh for christ's sake lighten up. You need to get out more.

Actually I went past Newbury the other day, I couldn't see the moral high ground where you live though, which side is it on?

Col

 

[Len Boorman]

My post was an attack on a racist. Racism is completely repugnant and quite frankly anyone who holds those views is a piece of scum.

As for the gutter colin, with those views that is exactly where you are.

Why thank you.

A friend of mine (A gentleman of foreign extraction) proposed the thought to me that the English (or British if you prefer) are subject to so much racial discrimination it is unbelieveable.

As Brian points out there are indeed a lot of people who feel that this country offers too much to newcomers no matter what their creed, colour or origin whereas native persons who have put something into the country do not get similar treatment.

Try going to other countries and getting benefits, or even leaflets in your native tongue. Frankly how much does the printing of leaflets in foreign languages cost this country. Lots of these leaflets are about benefits. These benefits are paid to non english speaking immigrants and are paid for by the natives, who also effectively pay the benefits through taxation.

So before labelling everybody who has a view on immigration as racist scum I suggest you spend a little more time considering the true situation and have some regard to everybody having an opinion.

Whether or not you agree with the opinion is not relevant, This is still a free country (at the moment).

Some people are a little more direct with their views, others a little quieter. They are all entitled to their opinion. If you do not like the opinion then try expressing your opinion in a constructive manner and enter a discussion on the subject.

Or stay out of the discussion

Len

 

[scott-atkinson]

Why thank you.

A friend of mine (A gentleman of foreign extraction) proposed the thought to me that the English (or British if you prefer) are subject to so much racial discrimination it is unbelieveable.

As Brian points out there are indeed a lot of people who feel that this country offers too much to newcomers no matter what their creed, colour or origin whereas native persons who have put something into the country do not get similar treatment.

Try going to other countries and getting benefits, or even leaflets in your native tongue. Frankly how much does the printing of leaflets in foreign languages cost this country. Lots of these leaflets are about benefits. These benefits are paid to non english speaking immigrants and are paid for by the natives, who also effectively pay the benefits through taxation.

So before labelling everybody who has a view on immigration as racist scum I suggest you spend a little more time considering the true situation and have some regard to everybody having an opinion.

Whether or not you agree with the opinion is not relevant, This is still a free country (at the moment).

Some people are a little more direct with their views, others a little quieter. They are all entitled to their opinion. If you do not like the opinion then try expressing your opinion in a constructive manner and enter a discussion on the subject.

Or stay out of the discussion

Len

Well Put..

I do not consider my self a racist, nor am I anti Immigration, there are lots of immigrants who have migrated into our country that work and contribute to the economy.

On the flip side there are also lots of Immigrants who come to the UK just for a free ride from our benefits system and our NHS system, these are the people who should be told to get out and never come back.

Again I am not a anti religious Bigot, my children go to a Church of England school not because I particularly believe in Jesus or God but because the school is a very good academically, and if they do learn about Jesus and God then so be it, will they turn into Religious Zealot nut jobs, not if I bring them up correctly.

Just my ten pence...

 

[chergh]

So before labelling everybody who has a view on immigration as racist scum

Lets look at a few things here first. I do not label everybody with views on immigration a racist. I called colin a racist because he made a racist statement, I've added my own emphasis:

You let one in, then before you know it, the whole family is here wanting freebies and making no attempt to speak English or integrate in any way.

All foreigners living in the UK should be sent back to where they came from, then we should start again with a completely new and effective immigration system. Enoch was right back in 1968.

That is just racist bullshit, completely false. Now while I could get into a tedious discussion of each point I would rather just label the person for what he is.

Some immigrants may fall into the description in the first paragraph but many don't.

There is also the point that kicking out the foreigners also means waving goodbye to many jobs; bye Honda, bye Nissan, bye HSBC, bye Ericsson bye many other foreign companies. Yep freeloading foreigners don't want them in our country.

I'm happy for anyone to be able to express their views and when they spout racist crap they shouldn't object to being called racist scum.

I'm actually proud to live in a country where we will take asylum seekers, provide them with shelter and food, help them to restart their lives. Yes some will try and abuse this system but if that is the price of helping those in genuine need then so be it.

it isn't only the natives who pay tax, employed immigrants do also and there are far more immigrants employed and working hard in this country than there are scrounging off benefits. There are also a hell of lot more UK natives scrounging off benefits than there are foreigners doing the same.

In future try reading what I've actually said instead of steaming in with some accusation that I've labelled "everybody who has a view on immigration as racist scum".

 

[Len Boorman]

I did read your post

You stated that anybody with views such as Colin's was racist scum.

Colin expressed a view that is probably held by a lot of people as Brian suggested. Okay maybe Colin's further explanation of his views was stronger that some others may have stated.

As I said some people put across their opinions in a more robust fashion than others.

So if you read my post I do not think I was actually "steaming in" nor did I state that you said that "everybody who has a view on immigration as racist scum". I am sure that since you seem to have a "view on immigration" you would not class yourself as racist scum.

So lets retire into respective corners and settle for a draw on the basis that everybody is entitled to an opinion, and some may express their opinions stronger than others.


L

 

[Rich]

it isn't only the natives who pay tax, employed immigrants do also and there are far more immigrants employed and working hard in this country than there are scrounging off benefits. There are also a hell of lot more UK natives scrounging off benefits than there are foreigners doing the same.

You've forgotten to mention the huge number of East Europeans here who claim UK benefits for their families back home and send the money there when when a huge number of British born can't claim a bloody penny from the fund that they've spent a lifetime contributing to and they are not refugees

Of course like this stupid government anyone who dares to complain is simply branded a racist

 

[chergh]

You've forgotten to mention the huge number of East Europeans here who claim UK benefits for their families back home and send the money there when when a huge number of British born can't claim a bloody penny from the fund that they've spent a lifetime contributing to and they are not refugees

Can you quote those huge numbers?

 

[Rich]

Can you quote those huge numbers?

Yes, which figure do you need, the number of self employed in this country or the numbers from EastEurope?

 

[ColinEssex]

Odd that you say this -

That is just racist bullshit, completely false.

Then you say this -

Some immigrants may fall into the description in the first paragraph but many don't.

I wish you'd make your mind up, either it's completely false or it isn't.

Anyway, as a matter of interest, I lived in Leicester for 3 years where there is the largest community of Indian and Pakistani people. I ran an office in the NHS where 75% of my 148 staff were of that origin.
Many of the people I knew had one target in mind - to get their families out of India / Pakistan and safely to the UK. By families, I don't just mean Mum and Dad, I mean aunties / uncles / brothers / sisters / cousins et al. Many acheived this, yet their relatives made no effort to learn English, get a job or to integrate into the UK society.

The comment I made about "sending them all back and starting again" was a direct steal from a throwaway comment made on TV the other night. I was a tongue in cheek comment, mainly to see who would bite (just to liven things up) and look what I caught - a high ground moralistic who feels that any comment that disagrees with their thinking is wrong.

Like I said - get out a bit and see what's around you (well, not in Newbury) try living in Leicester for a while.

Col

 

[chergh]

I wish you'd make your mind up, either it's completely false or it isn't.

You made a blanket statement covering all immigrants therefore your statement was completely false. That it is true for a part of the immigrant community doesn't make your original statement any more correct.

Anyway, as a matter of interest, I lived in Leicester for 3 years where there is the largest community of Indian and Pakistani people. I ran an office in the NHS where 75% of my 148 staff were of that origin.
Many of the people I knew had one target in mind - to get their families out of India / Pakistan and safely to the UK. By families, I don't just mean Mum and Dad, I mean aunties / uncles / brothers / sisters / cousins et al. Many acheived this, yet their relatives made no effort to learn English, get a job or to integrate into the UK society.

You met them all did you and they all told you they were going to make no effort or are you over exaggerating.

The comment I made about "sending them all back and starting again" was a direct steal from a throwaway comment made on TV the other night. I was a tongue in cheek comment, mainly to see who would bite (just to liven things up) and look what I caught - a high ground moralistic who feels that any comment that disagrees with their thinking is wrong.

Sorry but being anti racist does not turn me into a high ground moralist and I would have thought that anyone who has opinions would think that people who disagree with them are wrong?

I fully respect peoples rights to have different views but when it comes to racism, and the hate that is inherent in racism, then I have every right to return that hate right upon them.

So are you saying you are disagreeing with my views that racism is repugnant?

Like I said - get out a bit and see what's around you (well, not in Newbury) try living in Leicester for a while.

I lived in Slough for years so I know what is around me.

 

[chergh]

Yes, which figure do you need, the number of self employed in this country or the numbers from EastEurope?

The number of people from eastern europe who are sending their benefits money back home and the number of people in this country who are in need of benefits but can't get access to them please.

 

[Rich]

The number of people from eastern europe who are sending their benefits money back home and the number of people in this country who are in need of benefits but can't get access to them please.

Here's one for the first
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.england.misc/browse_thread/thread/4f2f69b2db429ace
Here's another
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7007163.stm

And here's one for the second and since you obviously don't know the self employed here are not entitled to unemployment or sickness benefit
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/oct/10/workandcareers.business

 

[chergh]

Here's one for the first
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.england.misc/browse_thread/thread/4f2f69b2db429ace

Oh please don't point me towards an article whose source is the British National Party. I wan't to see a reputable source please.

And here's one for the second and since you obviously don't know the self employed here are not entitled to unemployment or sickness benefit
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/oct/10/workandcareers.business

Self employed people can claim unemployment? Err what do you expect as if you are self employed you are not unemployed.

Self employed people are able to claim incapacity benefit. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers/claimforms/sc1_print.pdf

 

[Rich]

Self employed people can claim unemployment? Err what do you expect as if you are self employed you are not unemployed.

Duh! if you have no work you are unemployed

 

[Rich]

Oh please don't point me towards an article whose source is the British National Party. I wan't to see a reputable source please.

Here's another, there are plenty more if you just bother to search
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483225/1m-child-benefit-paid-month--mothers-Poland.html

 

[chergh]

Here's one for the first

Here's another
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7007163.stm

A quote from the bbc article:

Of the 600,000 workers who had registered in the UK over the last two years, some 16,868 had applied for some form of income support but the vast majority were turned down
[/quote[

So less than 3% have tried to claim income support and the vast majority have been turned down. Where are these huge numbers that are claiming benefits and sending them home?

If we consider 60% as a vast majority then ~ 7,000 people would be claiming benefits. Do you consider 7,000 to be a "huge" number?