Within the context of your post/question.....I do not believe the purple planet story
Atheists and theists are the same.
- Thread starter cookieduster
- Start date
Within the context of your post/question.....I do not believe the purple planet story
And does your disbelief require any faith on your part?
Obviously. I have to have some faith that if the purple planet is not reported that the news has been correct and of course the observers have been correct.
I think you would agree with me that if an astronomer said there is a purple planet that can be taken as far more accurate than an astronomer who says there is not a puple planet.
But that applies to anything. If I see a spider under the house then it is guaranteed there was a spider. But if I don't see any spiders under the house that is not a guarantee that there are no spiders. However, if is a professional pest man who says there are no spiders then I will take him at his faith.
Thus I have faith that if there is no report of a purple planet in the solar system then the astronomers have done an exaustive search.
I think you are incorrectly using the word faith in this statement.
From mirriam webster online, here are the definitions for the word faith:
1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
Reading back over your statement, I am not seeing how any of the 3 definitions fits in.
Also from the dictionary, here are the definitions of "belief":
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed ; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
I think that definition 1 of belief would represent what you were saying in your original statement. i.e., "Obviously. I have to have some belief [trust or confidence] that if the purple planet is not reported that the news has been correct and of course the observers have been correct.
Do you agree that the word belief makes more sense in this context?
Yes, as far as those definitions go.
I tend to use the word "faith" a lot and it is common in Australia. For example, I will say something like...I have a lot more faith in a life insurance company than a general insurance company.
Or it might be...I would place a lot more faith in the policy wording than "whatever or whoever"
But I am happy to go with "belief" for your exercise. However, there are a couple of points to consider. Firstly "faith" will simply fit some sentences better than "belief or believe". Faith is also probably stronger than believe or belief. In fact as far as selling insurance goes that is the case. So if I say to the client/prospect...I believe that will be the case...he will probably say something like...so you will check it and get back to me...But "faith" is stronger. "Faith" is indicating that I have already checked and there is no definite answer but given my experience etc.
In other words faith is more of a final answer and believe/believe is more of an indicator of what the answer will be after checking.
Your own personal definition of the word, while interesting, is not really relevant to this debate. So to summarize so far, you have general confidence in the news organizations to report news, and in the astronomers to observe, so you don't believe my story about the purple planet. In addition, your disbelief requires no faith on your part. Do you agree?
Uisng you definition, it requires "belief" on my part. Uisng my use of the word, it requires "faith" on my part.
As I said in my previous post I am happy to go with either faith or belief but in actual usage, at least in Australia, faith would be the word of choice.
I hope you aren't offended, but I place more authority in mirriam webster's definitions than in yours. If you have an actual dictionary reference that supports your use of the word, please post. Otherwise, I am sticking with mine. Belief does not require faith. The two cannot be used interchangeably, they simply do not mean the same thing.
So I repeat, do you agree with my summary?
Atomic Shrimp
Humanoid lifeform
- Local time
- Today, 09:24
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2000
- Messages
- 1,954
Is this faith comparable in any way to the faith a religious person places in the existence of their deity?
Ok, so basically, you don't believe my story about the purple planet because you can't find any evidence to back it up. In addition, your disbelief does not require a firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
Can you agree with that statement?
Both Yes and No.
As I have tried to explain to Alisa "faith" is a stronger word than "believe/belief" but unfortunately she is limited to single dictionary.
Thus some people have faith that God exists and others have belief that God exists. A "born again" is at the faith level someone like me is probably closer to belief. Hence I swing around a bit as belief is not as solid or final as faith.
I don't believe your story of the purple planet because
1) I am not a literal Bible believer on each and every part
2) I believe that since there are no reports of the purple planet in our solar system then it does not exist.
And is this a position of faith, in the dictionary sense of the word, on your part?
Atomic Shrimp
Humanoid lifeform
- Local time
- Today, 09:24
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2000
- Messages
- 1,954
I don't think that's a very useful definition of faith, Mike375 - it's the kind of definition someone would formulate specifically to force the issue on topic in this thread (not accusing you of doing this, but I don't think 'faith' has any meaning when you spread it so widely, and apply it to every thing, no matter how trivial.
Also, it means you're acquiring more and more faith about things every day - every time you encounter a fact, or lie, or anything, it becomes an article of faith.
Like I said, I don't see the use for a word that is so general in application - if it's true, it renders a statement such as "atheists have faith" completely banal and pointless. A semantic victory at the expense of meaning.
Also, it means you're acquiring more and more faith about things every day - every time you encounter a fact, or lie, or anything, it becomes an article of faith.
Like I said, I don't see the use for a word that is so general in application - if it's true, it renders a statement such as "atheists have faith" completely banal and pointless. A semantic victory at the expense of meaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike375
I don't believe your story of the purple planet because
1) I am not a literal Bible believer on each and every part
2) I believe that since there are no reports of the purple planet in our solar system then it does not exist.
Alisa,
I did not use the word faith.
I will make it as clear as possible. The lack of news reports is not a 100% indicator that the purple planet in our solar system does not exist BUT my belief or faith or feeling or whatever similar meaning word you want to insert......is more reliable than the Bible sating there is a purple planet in the solar system.
I have two choices.
1) Believe the news outlets
2) Believe the entry in the Bible.
I have chosen number 1
Originally Posted by Mike375
I don't believe your story of the purple planet because
1) I am not a literal Bible believer on each and every part
2) I believe that since there are no reports of the purple planet in our solar system then it does not exist.
Alisa,
I did not use the word faith.
I will make it as clear as possible. The lack of news reports is not a 100% indicator that the purple planet in our solar system does not exist BUT my belief or faith or feeling or whatever similar meaning word you want to insert......is more reliable than the Bible sating there is a purple planet in the solar system.
I have two choices.
1) Believe the news outlets
2) Believe the entry in the Bible.
I have chosen number 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike375
I don't believe your story of the purple planet because
1) I am not a literal Bible believer on each and every part
2) I believe that since there are no reports of the purple planet in our solar system then it does not exist.
Alisa,
I did not use the word faith.
I will make it as clear as possible. The lack of news reports is not a 100% indicator that the purple planet in our solar system does not exist BUT my belief or faith or feeling or whatever similar meaning word you want to insert......is more reliable than the Bible sating there is a purple planet in the solar system.
I have two choices.
1) Believe the news outlets
2) Believe the entry in the Bible.
I have chosen number 1
Surely you can see the point of this excercise? Or must I spell it out for you?
That was not the intention. As I posted I use Faith and Believe for different situations and plenty of other people I know do the same thing.
As I said "I believe xyz is the case" indicates xyz will be the case following checking. "I have faith xyz is the case" means checking has been done but there is no definite answer but based on my experience or whatever xyz will be the case.
Use it all week with respect to policy wording, potential claims etc.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question.
I have answered yours several times.
But as to your question, spell it out
I am still waiting for you to answer my question.
I have answered yours several times.
But as to your question, spell it out
Ok, I will spell it out for you.
The same way you do not believe my story about a purple planet, I do not believe your story about a supernatural being. The same way that you do not require faith, in the dictionary sense of the word, in order to not believe my purple planet story, I also do not require faith, in the dictionary sense of the word, in order to not believe yours.
Similar threads
