Atheists and theists are the same.

[Mike375]

Alisa,

Before I come to your question here is a link to lots of dictionary meanings on faith.

http://www.onelook.com/?loc=rescb&refclue=phrases&w=faith

 

[Mike375]

Ok, I will spell it out for you.
The same way you do not believe my story about a purple planet, I do not believe your story about a supernatural being.

Yes, I realise that.

The same way that you do not require faith, in the dictionary sense of the word, in order to not believe my purple planet story, I also do not require faith, in the dictionary sense of the word, in order to not believe yours.

The difference between us is I choose between two things on the basis of belief, not the basis of a lack of belief in one of the options.

If I was to convert to atheism it would be because my belief that natural laws being the answer was stronger than my belief a supernatural was the answer.

This different approach probably relates to what I posted to Alc at the tail end of the other thread running at the moment.

 

[Alisa]

Yes, I realise that.



The difference between us is I choose between two things on the basis of belief, not the basis of a lack of belief in one of the options.

If I was to convert to atheism it would be because my belief that natural laws being the answer was stronger than my belief a supernatural was the answer.

This different approach probably relates to what I posted to Alc at the tail end of the other thread running at the moment.

The only difference between us is your inability to follow a logical argument.
You are perfectly willing to accept that it is reasonable to not believe in the purple planet story given the complete lack of evidence for it. Yet, you are perfectly unwilling to accept that it is reasonable to not believe in the supernatural being story given the equivalent complete lack of evidence for it. How can you not see the hypocrisy of your own statements?

 

[Mike375]

Alisa,

Now what about mu question to you....is it your belief there is no god or God or do you have proof that eliminates "belief"

 

[Alisa]

Alisa,

Now what about mu question to you....is it your belief there is no god or God or do you have proof that eliminates "belief"

Where is your proof that eliminates your belief in the purple planet story?

 

[Mike375]

The only difference between us is your inability to follow a logical argument.
You are perfectly willing to accept that it is reasonable to not believe in the purple planet story given the complete lack of evidence for it. Yet, you are perfectly unwilling to accept that it is reasonable to not believe in the supernatural being story given the equivalent complete lack of evidence for it. How can you not see the hypocrisy of your own statements?

No, a difference.

My outcome is..I believe the news reports.

OK, since you cant answer my other question, which only requires a Yes or No.......do you believe science will produce the answer to the universe, earth, life and so on.

 

[Mike375]

Where is your proof that eliminates your belief in the purple planet story?

Just answer the question, it is simple.

 

[Alisa]

No, a difference.

My outcome is..I believe the news reports.

OK, since you cant answer my other question, which only requires a Yes or No.......do you believe science will produce the answer to the universe, earth, life and so on.

So the absence of news reporting the discovery of a purple planet is meaningful to you, but the absence of news reporting the discovery of a supernatural being is not. Why?

 

[Alisa]

Just answer the question, it is simple.

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[Mike375]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike375
Alisa,

Now what about mu question to you....is it your belief there is no god or God or do you have proof that eliminates "belief"

Where is your proof that eliminates your belief in the purple planet story?

I don't have proof. Thus I assume yuor answer to my question is....it is your belief.....You believe there is no God. I believe there is no purple planet.

 

[Alisa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike375
Alisa,

Now what about mu question to you....is it your belief there is no god or God or do you have proof that eliminates "belief"



I don't have proof. Thus I assume yuor answer to my question is....it is your belief.....You believe there is no God. I believe there is no purple planet.

And in both cases, no faith is required.

 

[Mike375]

And in both cases, no faith is required.

I am glad you have a belief there is no God.

But you should check some of those dictionary meanings as I thought you would be stronger than just having a belief there was no God.

 

[Alisa]

I am glad you have a belief there is no God.

But you should check some of those dictionary meanings as I thought you would be stronger than just having a belief there was no God.

atheism = "just having a belief there is no god"

 

[JamesLast99]

Is it the same kind of belief that others have in God though. Its less strong is it?

 

[Alisa]

Is it the same kind of belief that others have in God though. Its less strong is it?

I provided the definitions of the "faith" and "belief" that I am using before . . . .
Clearly, belief and faith are two different things.

 

[JamesLast99]

Forgetting faith for a while - is there any differnace between the two beliefs in plain english?

 

[Alisa]

Yes, one is belief, and one is faith, look at the definitions. Religious belief is a misnomer. It is truly religious faith, not religious belief.

 

[JamesLast99]

Yes, one is belief, and one is faith, look at the definitions. Religious belief is a misnomer. It is truly religious faith, not religious belief.

Why can't someone belief in God as you don't believe in God. They don't have to be religious do they.

 

[Alc]

Yes, one is belief, and one is faith, look at the definitions. Religious belief is a misnomer. It is truly religious faith, not religious belief.

Mike distinuishes between these two, most people wouldn't.
I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. I have faith that is will rise.
No distinction.

Apparently, anyone saying that they believe that Jesus is their saviour, or that they believe in the power of prayer is only half-hearted about their religion. This will come as a shock to many.

 

[Alisa]

If these two words mean the same thing, why are their definitions so different?
From mirriam webster online, here are the definitions for the word faith:

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

Reading back over your statement, I am not seeing how any of the 3 definitions fits in.

Also from the dictionary, here are the definitions of "belief":

1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed ; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence